Originally posted by srussell0018
Meh, I'll take your word for it, I don't feel like looking it up. Also, a small propellor/generator coming down from the bottom of a plane upon multiple engine failure isn't exactly the "principles of flight" :p
Part of me still thinks you made that up though...
Principles of flight explain how a plane glides at any altitude...
The generator is called a Ram Air Turbine...
Lira
My fiancée is asking me if they're going to retrieve the bodies. Any word on that?
(Yes, I know I could do some research but someone's bound to know the answer already :p)
chlola
quote:
Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine
This thread was delayed.
:haha:
iclone
quote:
Originally posted by iclone
also: pitot tube.
quote:
Originally posted by VDub
FYI guys, it's called a pitot tube...
I'm not sure that one tube freezing would be a problem since most airliners have several of them. One for each seat and a standby..
It'll be great to find out what actually happened to that flight...
yeah, the pitot tube was already mentioned. it's actually a pitot static system, which leads into the aircraft instrumentation. THERE IS NOT one tube (let alone, a standby) for each seat...that's ridiculous. you're not going to have 700+ pitot tubes sticking out of a wide-body. most commercial aircraft have only a few for the entire plane, including backups. nose of the aircraft below is to the left (envision pitot tube covers removed):
iclone
quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
I'm assuming a plane nose diving into the ocean is a result of the engines failing.
or electrical failure. or smoke/fire in the cockpit. or pressurization loss. or instrumentation failure. or computers overriding pilot (ohai, airbus). or a whole host of other reasons that don't include engine failure... imo, a lightning strike would be an unlikely cause...that's what static wicks are for, and they usually diffuse the strike without incident (unless they're installed inversely, as embraer did with american eagle's entire fleet of E-145's :p)
the story will probably be told better by the FDR than the CVR.
DJ RANN
I can't find it now, but there was an amazing story of the some (I think BA) pilots who lost all 4 engines about 60 miles out from the airport.
They managed to glide it in and no one died - I remember at the time they were saying it was one of the greatest aviation feats in the history of commercial airlines.
One thing my Grandad used to tell me was that all crashes are never a single problem; it's always a series of malfunction and/or mechanical and/or human errors that cause them.
He used to tell me some fascinating (was chief engineer for BA (globally), designed the fuel systems for concord etc). Some of the stories about flying in prototypes while they crumbled to pieces and they had to get to ground before falling out of the sky were just unreal.
My faviourite gliding story is this one:
quote:
British Airways Flight 9, sometimes referred to as the Speedbird 9 or Jakarta incident,[1] was a scheduled British Airways flight from London Heathrow to Auckland, with stops in Bombay, Madras, Kuala Lumpur, Perth, and Melbourne. On 24 June 1982, the route was flown by the City of Edinburgh, a 747-236B. The aircraft flew into a cloud of volcanic ash thrown up by the eruption of Mount Galunggung (approximately 180 kilometres (110 mi) south-east of Jakarta, Indonesia), resulting in the failure of all four engines. The reason for the failure was not immediately apparent to the crew or ground control. The aircraft was diverted to Jakarta in the hope that enough engines could be restarted to allow it to land there. The aircraft was able to glide far enough to exit the ash cloud, and all engines were restarted (although one failed again soon after), allowing the aircraft to land safely at Halim Perdanakusuma Airport, Jakarta's airport. The crew members of the incident segment had boarded the aircraft in Kuala Lumpur, while many of the passengers had been aboard since the flight began in London.[2]
Best line ever:
quote:
.....He then called out how high they should be at each DME step along the final approach to the runway, creating a virtual glide slope for them to follow. It was, in Moody's words, "a bit like negotiating one's way up a badger's arse."[1]
Originally posted by VDub
FYI guys, it's called a pitot tube...
I'm not sure that one tube freezing would be a problem since most airliners have several of them. One for each seat and a standby..
It'll be great to find out what actually happened to that flight...
It's thought that all of them failed when super-cooled water vapor condensed on them. There was a series of electronic transmissions of systems shutting down, including the auto-pilot, just prior to the plane's crash. The systems that shut down were related, in some measure, to those tubes.
iclone
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
I can't find it now, but there was an amazing story of the some (I think BA) pilots who lost all 4 engines about 60 miles out from the airport.
They managed to glide it in and no one died - I remember at the time they were saying it was one of the greatest aviation feats in the history of commercial airlines.
annnnd that's why they get paid the big bucks ;) 60 miles out -- and probably well below 10,000ft is difficult enough. i cannot imagine attempting to glide a plane with inop engines down from altitude (in the middle of the atlantic, no less), let alone with any additional problems!
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by iclone
annnnd that's why they get paid the big bucks ;) 60 miles out -- and probably well below 10,000ft is difficult enough. i cannot imagine attempting to glide a plane with inop engines down from altitude (in the middle of the atlantic, no less), let alone with any additional problems!
Well actually the higher the better, assuming you still have system control.
The higher you are the more ground you can cover and the more airspeed you've got to perform turns etc.
I heard an interesting conspiracy theory and to some degree, I can see where it came from:
Sully's flight was not hit by birds, it's was simple bad maintenance and the bird story was quickly released as AA would simply not survive another problem, especially with the amount of money they were losing at the time and the general shape of things post 911.
The more I think about the more I believe it, and I don't really buy in to this kind of .
iclone
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Well actually the higher the better, assuming you still have system control.
The higher you are the more ground you can cover and the more airspeed you've got to perform turns etc.
it's more having to ditch the plane in the middle of the ocean i have a problem with. ;)
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Sully's flight was not hit by birds, it's was simple bad maintenance and the bird story was quickly released as AA would simply not survive another problem, especially with the amount of money they were losing at the time and the general shape of things post 911.
sully was USAirways, not AA...
fbgdavidson
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
I can't find it now, but there was an amazing story of the some (I think BA) pilots who lost all 4 engines about 60 miles out from the airport.
Well there's BA9 that you reference amongst other similar incidents...
A family friend was a flight engineer on a 747-200 back in the 1980s/1990s. Landing into Mauritius they found themselves in a weather system (can't remember the exact name for it now) where the aircraft was sinking must greater than they expected. The flight engineer called for 100% power, then 110% power (this rarely being used, not even for takeoffs) and yet they were still descending. Based on their sink rate they were due to ditch in the ocean a few miles short of the runway, luckily they broke out of the weather system and began gaining altitude again. The friend said he'd been an FE for over 30yrs and it was the most scared he'd ever been.
quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
Can a roughly 500,000lb plane really glide down safely with no power?
Originally posted by fbgdavidson
Landing into Mauritius they found themselves in a weather system (can't remember the exact name for it now) where the aircraft was sinking must greater than they expected. The flight engineer called for 100% power, then 110% power (this rarely being used, not even for takeoffs) and yet they were still descending. Based on their sink rate they were due to ditch in the ocean a few miles short of the runway, luckily they broke out of the weather system and began gaining altitude again.
