Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I'm not making excuses, I'm merely pointing out that the numbers you're relying on to make your statements were produced by the very people you think are involved in a conspiracy to simultaneously fleece the American people and kill them.
Keep dancing around the hard facts you moron. The FED owes the USA 2 Trillion dollars.
culorut
Perfect example of the absolute need for Transparency Act HR 1207.
Fed Refuses to Release Bank Lending Data
March 5 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve Board of Governors receives daily reports on loans to banks and securities firms, the institution said in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by Bloomberg News.
The Fed refused yesterday to disclose the names of the borrowers and the loans, alleging that it would cast “a stigma” on recipients of more than $1.9 trillion of emergency credit from U.S. taxpayers and the assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.
The bank provides “select members and staff of the Board of Governors with daily and weekly reports” on Primary Dealer Credit Facility borrowing, said Susan E. McLaughlin, a senior vice president in the markets group of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in a deposition for the Fed. The documents “include the names of the primary dealers that have borrowed from the PDCF, individual loan amounts, composition of securities pledged and rates for specific loans.”
The Board of Governors contends that it’s separate from its member banks, including the Federal Reserve Bank of New York which runs the lending programs. Most documents relevant to the Bloomberg suit are at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which the Fed contends isn’t subject to FOIA law. The Board of Governors has 231 pages of documents, which it is denying access to under an exemption under trade secrets.
“I would assume that information would be shared by the Fed and the New York Fed,” said U.S. Representative Scott Garrett, a New Jersey Republican. “At some point, the demand for transparency is paramount to any demand that they have for secrecy.”
Bloomberg sued Nov. 7 under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act requesting details about the terms of 11 Fed lending programs."
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
No one ever answered culorut's question, by the way.
That's a given, they are all running around their bedrooms like a bunch of idiots while clicking their red heels wishing they never entered this thread.
They do not even know how national debt works or who owns what percentage of it but yet they post a couple links from the federal reserves website and they are all of a sudden experts on the subject.
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
DOOMBOT
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I'd be very interested in reading your take on the causes of Panics in between 1860-1900.
Panic of 1819 - Banks issued notes on gold that they kept in their vaults to customers. Banks began issuing more notes then there were gold to back up the notes. Following this were bank runs and lots of banks going out of business.
Panic of 1837 - Same thing as 1819.
Panic of 1857 - Again, we see the same thing. Government unable to meet its financial obligations. A lot of gold game into the economy, which caused much inflation because again, banks were issuing paper notes on the gold. Other countries, England for example lost faith in our economic policies, which also translates to lost faith of the US citizens.
Panic of 1873 - Again, government tampering with monetary policy. You see them move from coining gold/silver to just gold. Of course, people carried silver so this really hurt your average citizen because it removed a lot of their buying power. Obviously your private citizen wishes to carry silver and does so because it is money to him/her. Government, again tampering with monetary policy, creates yet another recession.
Panic of 1893 - Well, what do you know? Monetary policy of the US Government fails again! Government scoops up a lot of silver from the economy, which increases prices. Obviously, this is not natural. The Philadelphia Rail Road goes bankrupt, people panic and go to the banks to take their money (Bank run) and we have the same out come as above. The gold isn't there!
Of course, I crammed down tons of information into just a few short sentences for each panic but I think you get the idea. Government trying to manipulate the monetary policy and money supply AND interest rates is always going to lead to disaster. If people are going to use gold, silver, copper, cigarettes or poker chips as money, let them. The free market has always done a wonderful job of deciding what money is and should be and every single time a central planner tries to change it "for the good of the country", eventually hits the fan.
I'm open for debate though and also interested in what others have to say about some of these Panics.
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by culorut
Are you blowing hot air again or ignoring what the national debt is? Either way I do not think you know how to do some simple math or understand the banking system at all.
Post up some relevant links proving me wrong on anything I have posted in this thread because so far you have failed Krypot.
Stop.
I did post a relevant link using the Fed's balance sheet to prove they pay profits back to the Treasury. Your only response is to flat out accuse them of cooking their books. You are a ing idiot...:stongue:
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
And do you know how these panics came about?
Here's a hint: They weren't caused by "natural" cycles in the economy.
A multitude of factors. One being the fact that there was no way to manipulate the money supply as the business cycles fluctuate. But it seems like you don't even accept the business cycle as a normal function of capital markets, unfortunately...:rolleyes:
DOOMBOT
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
A multitude of factors. One being the fact that there was no way to manipulate the money supply as the business cycles fluctuate. But it seems like you don't even accept the business cycle as a normal function of capital markets, unfortunately...:rolleyes:
Any attempt to manipulate the money supply is eventually going to end in failure. History shows us that this always happens. You can figure this out by reading through the different panics of the 1800's that I was asked to give an opinion on. If you don't agree with my understanding of them, I suggest doing your own research, which I find a little obvious that you have never done. It's simply better to just let the free market decide what it wants to use as money and set prices and interest rates. People obviously don't mind using gold or silver as money but look at what happens when the bank starts issuing paper notes that are supposedly backed by the gold and silver. We find out that more paper notes are being issued then there are gold and silver to back them. So we in turn get really high inflation and an increase in prices, when in reality, there shouldn't be because there never really was much of an increase in gold/silver in the markets in the first place!
I'm not saying I do not agree with the idea of banking but the idea of issuing paper notes that are supposed to be backed by something of value to people is obviously a horrible idea. It consistently fails. Why do you think our dollars are no longer backed by anything of value? Because to do so is obviously an impossible task! Now we have much larger problems because we have given free reign to people who insist that printing money endlessly is going to fix problems. People may have had blind faith in a fiat currency for a while but it is obviously coming to an end.
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Any attempt to manipulate the money supply is eventually going to end in failure. History shows us that this always happens. You can figure this out by reading through the different panics of the 1800's that I was asked to give an opinion on. If you don't agree with my understanding of them, I suggest doing your own research, which I find a little obvious that you have never done.
No it doesn't. History shows that the economy has exponentially expanded far more since 1913 than before. 60-70% of the time since 1928, the economy has expanded. Before you tell me to do research that I have already done, perhaps, you should put your money where your mouth is?
quote:
It's simply better to just let the free market decide what it wants to use as money and set prices and interest rates. People obviously don't mind using gold or silver as money but look at what happens when the bank starts issuing paper notes that are supposedly backed by the gold and silver. We find out that more paper notes are being issued then there are gold and silver to back them. So we in turn get really high inflation and an increase in prices, when in reality, there shouldn't be because there never really was much of an increase in gold/silver in the markets in the first place!
The free market used to decide. In fact, there were many currencies all competing against each other in just this country. With each state printing its own currencies, that was proven to be an utter failure.
quote:
I'm not saying I do not agree with the idea of banking but the idea of issuing paper notes that are supposed to be backed by something of value to people is obviously a horrible idea. It consistently fails. Why do you think our dollars are no longer backed by anything of value? Because to do so is obviously an impossible task! Now we have much larger problems because we have given free reign to people who insist that printing money endlessly is going to fix problems. People may have had blind faith in a fiat currency for a while but it is obviously coming to an end.
Endlessly printing money to fix problems? That's exactly what isn't happening. The massive contraction of the money supply warranted liquidity transfusions into the system. Oh, but I forgot, you actually believe deflation is a good thing...
What do you want? A pound of gold in your pocket?
culorut
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Stop.
I did post a relevant link using the Fed's balance sheet to prove they pay profits back to the Treasury. Your only response is to flat out accuse them of cooking their books. You are a ing idiot...:stongue:
Man you are ing stupid. I already showed and proved you wrong that the national debt is half owned by the federal reserve banks. They use it as collateral to print more money and charge everyone interest on it over and over again. Read the link below before running your mouth again idiot. The Federal bank owns all of the public debt, roughly 5.8 Trillion dollars, the other 5.8 Trillion of intra-debt is partly owned by foreign countries. (3 Trillion or so)
Break down of percentages of debt owned by foreign countries.
From the FED's half the interest the FED's charge (5%, and I am being very conservative here because it is more) on the monies (52 Trillion money supply) amounts to roughly 2 Trillion dollars which they are not taxed on. They spend this money to buy things, if they claim it as profit they are ed. This is why you do not see it on their waste of a balance sheet to keep the sheep like you dreaming that the world is pretty place.
You may think the FED is just one bank but in reality all banks are part of the FED, they all get there fake money from the FED. This is why you do not understand that they make much more then the 40 Billion a year. Prove me wrong here I am waiting.....and no the FED balance sheet is not good enough.
The FED pays roughly 20% of it's profits back to the government while pocketing the rest. So if you are trying to tell me that they need 2 Trillion dollars for operating expenses (which is their loophole) every year please stop posting in this thread now because you are making yourself look like a ing idiot.
Where is the money for the last time? All 2 Trillion dollars of it?
You want a couple more references to show that the FED balance sheet is bull?
Here you go...some are from the federal reserves own website so please learn something for once in your life before plastering this forum with misguided information like your retard of a friend KFC.
The honest Federal Reserve and it's bull banks that would never ever steal your money....because they said so....
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue:
Yeah right. BOOKED.
House committee subpoenas Federal Reserve
The congressional panel investigating what happened to all that bank bailout money has issued a subpoena to the Federal Reserve, asking them to hand over all documents relating to the takeover of Merrill Lynch by the Bank of America.
On January 1, BofA finalized its purchase of Merrill Lynch for just over $29.1 billion. That made the bank eligible for an additional $20 billion in federal rescue money, bringing BofA's total to some $45 billion. Now, Reps. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) and Edolphus Towns (D-NY) want to know exactly what the banks and the Federal Reserve agreed to when they arranged the deal last year.
Full text of the press release from Kucinich's office:
Washington D.C. (June 8, 2009) -- House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Edolphus Towns (D-NY) and Ranking Member Darrell Issa (R-CA) today served a subpoena on the Federal Reserve (the Fed) to compel it to turn over documents related to Bank of America’s acquisition of Merrill Lynch.
The full committee and Domestic Policy Subcommittee, under the leadership of Chairman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), have been investigating the circumstances surrounding the federal government’s bailout of the Bank of America-Merrill Lynch transaction. Specific documents subpoenaed include emails, notes of conversations and other documents.
New York Attorney-General Andrew Cuomo has claimed that, in 2008, then-Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke strong-armed BofA into buying Merrill -- a move that, if true, could expose Paulson and Bernanke to prosecution.
Last week, news services reported that the House had asked Bank of America CEO Kenneth Lewis to testify before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
Originally posted by culorut
Man you are ing stupid.
Not as stupid as you accusing the central bank of accounting fraud...you ing fraud...;)
Oh the government is so evil, OH NOOOES. But let's trust the treasury department right? You only trust the government when it fits into your warped world view. Talk about selective research...:o
culorut
Another Trillion or so dollars on and off the balance sheet that was looked over? WTF!
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
Alan Grayson: Is Anyone Minding the Store at the Federal Reserve?
Krypo, KFC I know challenge you to watch this 5 minute video and answer where is the Trillions of dollars?
Again do not post some bull from the federal reserves website because it is now very apparent that they and you are the real frauds. Use the tiny brains you have or face the music you ing trolls.
You just watched the Federal Reserves Inspector General fail in front of everyone and the Trillions of dollars are missing.
