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HR 1207 : Federal Reserve Transparency Act 2009 (pg. 2)
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| culorut |
| quote: | | im sure you could have found that out by yourself if you actually had a committment to finding out how the fed works, rather than beating your chest with nonsense talking points. |
Judging by the number of people who agree with this bill obviously what ever audits that have been taking place are not doing the job.
Scrutinize them just like anyone else. Put them under the microscope and if nothing comes out of it then so be it.
With money comes power, with power comes corruption. The public deserves to know. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
Judging by the number of people who agree with this bill obviously what ever audits that have been taking place are not doing the job. |
the country (and to a fair extent, the world) is in the throes of a very anti-banking mentality, and rightfully so. of course this will be popular with politicians who wouldn't want to be seen against something that sounds all responsible and awesome.
this is what i don't get about you culorut. you constantly (and i mean constantly) decry the great evils of the corrupt government, the hacks in congress and the senate that have been bought off by corporations and their lobbyists, that the US fundamentals of government are being controlled by shadowy, powerful forces.
and then right here you're arguing that consent by these same malign forces is somehow decent and good.
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
Scrutinize them just like anyone else. Put them under the microscope and if nothing comes out of it then so be it. |
absolutely nothing will change. nothing. there is nothing that the federal does or did during the depths of the crisis that would have been prevented by this bill, and there is little . sure, pass it if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but D-res' non sequitur in the first post is what im referring to specifically.
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
With money comes power, with power comes corruption. The public deserves to know. |
the public does know. while there might be some clarification of everything that is going on during this special time in economic history, there is nothing that the fed routinely does that isn't public knowledge. all these kooks like ron paul can find out everything they need know by reading the fed's reports and minutes.
you guys dont understand what the fed does, which is why you try to weave conspiracies about it. the whole reason the fed i supposed to be an independent branch of government (even though it is regularly ing audited for crying out loud) is so that political issues don't have undue influence on the setting of monetary policy.
its truly funny to see you guys asking for MORE government regulation from a bunch of government officials you constantly complain about.
there may have been some misteps by the fed that will come to light when their actions can be judged effectively, but most of what they have done is public record and this legislation will change exactly nothing, other than giving politicians more ability to waste time in areas most of them are ill-equipped to judge. |
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| thedoggyworld |
Auditing the Federal Reserve is a step in the right direction to abolishing it all together.
I'd prefer the Congress or the Treasury to make the currency.
The federal reserve is not that open and I do not think many would be aware that private banks are that involved in what appears to be a government entity.
The members are not accountable to voters either.
If anyone has the names of the member banks, I would appreciate a link. I think they are JP Morgan, Bank of America, Citigroup. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
the public does know. while there might be some clarification of everything that is going on during this special time in economic history, there is nothing that the fed routinely does that isn't public knowledge. all these kooks like ron paul can find out everything they need know by reading the fed's reports and minutes.
you guys dont understand what the fed does, which is why you try to weave conspiracies about it. the whole reason the fed i supposed to be an independent branch of government (even though it is regularly ing audited for crying out loud) is so that political issues don't have undue influence on the setting of monetary policy.
its truly funny to see you guys asking for MORE government regulation from a bunch of government officials you constantly complain about.
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I don't have much to say that wasn't said very well right here. Spot on.
Funny that pkc and I are the libertarians arguing for less government intervention on this issue, eh? |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
this will change absolutely nothing. it certainly wouldn't have prevented the fed's activities in the wake of the recession. its populist nonsense that will resonate with voters and have absolutely no effect on the role or decisions of the fed.
the only reason ron paul is obsessed with the fed is because he doesn't understand anything about economics. the fed is audited regularly and their minutes are published for all to see.
much ado about nothing, but i do enjoy watching the usual suspects popping in from time to time to parade their ignorance. |
+1
The Fed is very open but people are generally to lazy to read any of the material.
For instance, check out the new Z1 report which tallies US indebtedness sector by sector:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/ |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
I for one would like to know the names of those benefitting from all this money printing..
Transparency in and reduced secrecy in Washington. How can you oppose that pk? |
Not so much opposing as being indeferent too. One negative to the initiative is that it could be taking resources away from where they might actually be needed, like in figuring out how to get companies, municipalities, states, and individuals out of debt.
I think the list of loans made under both TALF and TARP are in the public domain, it wouldn't take long to find them if you really cared (i do not at this point).
Another no brainer about who 'wins' when the US prints money is everyone who owes money in US$ and everyone who holds currency other than US$ and also sees things they want in the US. I'd be going on a buying spree if my bank account were full of CN$ this summer but it's not full and I really don't see much that I'd want to buy from the US right now. Maybe I'll do some online shopping in the next couple of months, that way I won't have to risk getting caught in the riots that are sure to break out ;) |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
Judging by the number of people who agree with this bill obviously what ever audits that have been taking place are not doing the job.
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Public opinion is not a barometer of the functioning of a financial system. Public opinion can be swayed by ignorance, arrogance, apathy, and lazyness. Public opinion by and large doesn't represent an informed opinion.
For example, some people will say:
| quote: |
Scrutinize them just like anyone else. Put them under the microscope and if nothing comes out of it then so be it.
With money comes power, with power comes corruption. The public deserves to know. |
Because they are either ignorant of the current auditing procetures, arrogant enough to think they couldn't be wrong because they might have accolades in some other feild, or too lazy to look up what the current auditing procedures are.
The unfortunate truth is that auditing and tranceparency are accounting issues and accounting issues are pretty boring. So when getting down to actually fixing some of these things, all interest is lost. |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by thedoggyworld
The federal reserve is not that open and I do not think many would be aware that private banks are that involved in what appears to be a government entity.
The members are not accountable to voters either.
If anyone has the names of the member banks, I would appreciate a link. I think they are JP Morgan, Bank of America, Citigroup. |
Just do a search for banks that are over about 10 billion and they will probably be member banks.
I'm pretty sick of people saying the fed isn't open. That really shows a level of ignorance that is boarderline irresponsible when commenting on issues like this.
The fed publishes a lot. If you don't read it then it is hardly the fed's openness that is in question.
Most recently I've been able to comment on some of the issues they are considering (Dec. 2008) only to have the concerns brought up in thier meeting, documented in the Financial Times report on the release of the meetings minutes (Jan 2009) and later reafirmed by Greenspan in an article of his in March 2009.
I've also been in contact with one of the economists there who quite quickly responded vis a vis a paper of his.
These are marks of a fairly open institution that is willing to feild comments from the global public.
I don't beleive they are acting naferiously for any party. I get the feeling that the group approaches problems with integrity and a sense of responsibility while doing some amount of work to engage and consider even very different view points.
Don't bother arguing with me about this, just go to the fed site and start reading. |
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| culorut |
| quote: | Originally posted by atbell
Public opinion is not a barometer of the functioning of a financial system. Public opinion can be swayed by ignorance, arrogance, apathy, and lazyness. Public opinion by and large doesn't represent an informed opinion.
For example, some people will say:
Because they are either ignorant of the current auditing procetures, arrogant enough to think they couldn't be wrong because they might have accolades in some other feild, or too lazy to look up what the current auditing procedures are.
The unfortunate truth is that auditing and tranceparency are accounting issues and accounting issues are pretty boring. So when getting down to actually fixing some of these things, all interest is lost. |
Wait are you trying to convince me that a private company who takes a huge percentage of monies from the people should not be scrutinized?
Go ahead and bend over if you like that. I rather check further into what is going on. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by thedoggyworld
Auditing the Federal Reserve is a step in the right direction to abolishing it all together.
I'd prefer the Congress or the Treasury to make the currency. |
So you want politicians with political motives to control the money supply? Ridiculous.
| quote: | | The federal reserve is not that open and I do not think many would be aware that private banks are that involved in what appears to be a government entity. |
It is a public-private partnership. For you to use your bank, you must have an account with them don't you? As with a credit union, you must be a member to have an account. So why would you expect the commercials banks and the Federal Reserve to be any different?
| quote: | The members are not accountable to voters either.
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You'r right, they'r accountable to their regulators and shareholders. Why should they be accountable to voters if banks aren't "elected" to anything?
Citigroup executives run the company into the ground and need government help. Don't you think the shareholder's would be up in arms? Of course, and they did. The CEO, gone. Board of directors, gone. FIRED. That's accountability for you. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
Wait are you trying to convince me that a private company who takes a huge percentage of monies from the people should not be scrutinized?
Go ahead and bend over if you like that. I rather check further into what is going on. |
Are you trying to convince us that the same "mob" you call sheep, under the thumb of a secret cabal of bankers, are competent in deciding issues of monetary policy and central banking? I bet you if you were to go out in the street and ask people, "What is the Federal Reserve?", half of them wouldn't know what the you were talking about. Yet, you want them to make decisions they are not informed about, nor, care about for that matter... |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Are you trying to convince us that the same "mob" you call sheep, under the thumb of a secret cabal of bankers, are competent in deciding issues of monetary policy and central banking? I bet you if you were to go out in the street and ask people, "What is the Federal Reserve?", half of them wouldn't know what the you were talking about. Yet, you want them to make decisions they are not informed about, nor, care about for that matter... |
Oh, a big +1 here... |
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