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Knee jerk reaction to Ped deaths coming? Councillor wants 10 kph less speed limits (pg. 8)
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| Jayx1 |
And this part of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act is EXACTLY why pedestrians are so god damned arrogant in this province.
The onus is on the driver even though the pedestrian was jwalking and had no business being there in the first place.
Thats just plain BULL
| quote: | But, because the stakes in a car-pedestrian collision are not even (the pedestrian will suffer far more) , the Act goes a step further. Section 193 (1) states:
When loss or damage is sustained by any person by reason of a motor vehicle on a highway, the onus of proof that the loss or damage did not arise through the negligence or improper conduct of the owner, driver, lessee or operator of the motor vehicle is upon the owner, driver, lessee or operator of the motor vehicle. (note — highway here means any road).
So, if a driver hits a pedestrian, it’s up to the driver to prove they weren’t doing anything wrong (note - I don’t have the expertise to be able to say if this provision is in practice as strong as the Netherland’s assumption of driver liability in collisions with pedestrians, which I referred to in a recent article. A reader wrote in to suggest that the Ontario provision is in fact similar in strength, which may possibly be the case. But another complication is the addition of more restrictive municipal by-laws, noted below. Also, the case law over the years would affect the application of this provision — my sense from a quick survey when I wrote the NOW article last year was that the driver is almost always assigned some liability, but the pedestrian may be assigned some liability too if they were not exercising due care).
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
I can't find anything online so I think my co-worker saw it with her own eyes
she mentioned the light was at 2 seconds and flashing
ha, funny question - they stop me and want to issue a ticket, I have no ID on me, what is their next move? can they legal detain a jaywalker? |
If its a police officer yes..
If its a bylaw officer NO |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
If its a police officer yes.. |
don't they need a warrant to detain me? |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
don't they need a warrant to detain me? |
not if they saw you break the law |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
not if they saw you break the law |
yah but if this isn't even written anywhere + they dont arrest drivers for speeding, they just issue tickets
no ID = no ticket?
I'm just wondering for curiocity's sake - I don't have driver's ID, and sometimes I don't even have a health card on me
so technically I can tell them I'm Jane Doe and I live in Nunavut |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
so apparantelly today one pedestrian got a ticket for crossing on Bay/Bloor at flashing red light :wtf:
is this something entirely new? I was under the impression that we can cross as long as the red is still flashing (with a countdown from 10 to 0) |
A flashing red light or flashing hand signal?
If it is a flashing red light, then it's a four way stop, and you continue like it is a stop sign.
If it is a flashing hand signal, it is cautionary, and you can walk. I have specifically asked police about this before. Hand/don't walk sign is not the law, only the green/red/yellow traffic light is the law. You can even cross when the hand is solid. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
yah but if this isn't even written anywhere + they dont arrest drivers for speeding, they just issue tickets
no ID = no ticket?
I'm just wondering for curiocity's sake - I don't have driver's ID, and sometimes I don't even have a health card on me
so technically I can tell them I'm Jane Doe and I live in Nunavut |
if u dont have id they have your license plate. Also not having ID while driving is an actual offense and technically they can ask you to get out of your car and have it towed.
Again, if u lie to a police officer about your identity you can be arrested for obstruction of justice.
Either way if you break the law and refuse to cooperate they have the right to take you to the station to figure out your identity if they want to.
Not so for a bylaw officer. You can basically tell him to go to hell. I did this once when buddy tried to give me a ticket for giving out flyers. Just dont get into a car with plates or your house because then he can ID you. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
You can even cross when the hand is solid. |
if so thats just plain retarded... why even have the ped signals in the first place? |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
A flashing red light or flashing hand signal?
If it is a flashing red light, then it's a four way stop, and you continue like it is a stop sign.
If it is a flashing hand signal, it is cautionary, and you can walk. I have specifically asked police about this before. Hand/don't walk sign is not the law, only the green/red/yellow traffic light is the law. You can even cross when the hand is solid. |
flashing red hand sign, yup.. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
if so thats just plain retarded... why even have the ped signals in the first place? |
They're pretty useful to drivers as a warning that you have to floor it in order to get through the intersection on time... |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
A flashing red light or flashing hand signal?
If it is a flashing red light, then it's a four way stop, and you continue like it is a stop sign.
If it is a flashing hand signal, it is cautionary, and you can walk. I have specifically asked police about this before. Hand/don't walk sign is not the law, only the green/red/yellow traffic light is the law. You can even cross when the hand is solid. |
that was my understanding too...but then explain how police were ticketing people, specifically for crossing on a yellow or a flashing hand signal?
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...jaywalkers?bn=1 |
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| Orko |
No clue. For me, I was crossing while the hand was flashing, and I had a number of motorists honk at me, as to say it was their right of way. I was sure that it was the lights that mattered so I walked into a police station in Mississauga and asked about this very thing.
They told me in absolute terms, I was right, but that didn't matter because it wasn't worth losing my life over. I agreed, but asked once again, if i was able to cross on a flashing or solid hand, and they responded yes.
If the cop was handing out tickets during a flashing hand, then that is complete BS. Or, the cops I asked were wrong. We just need to find the passage in the traffic act to set it straight. On a yellow, I can see the ticket as being valid. |
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