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Knee jerk reaction to Ped deaths coming? Councillor wants 10 kph less speed limits (pg. 9)
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
No clue. For me, I was crossing while the hand was flashing, and I had a number of motorists honk at me, as to say it was their right of way. I was sure that it was the lights that mattered so I walked into a police station in Mississauga and asked about this very thing.
They told me in absolute terms, I was right, but that didn't matter because it wasn't worth losing my life over. I agreed, but asked once again, if i was able to cross on a flashing or solid hand, and they responded yes.
If the cop was handing out tickets during a flashing hand, then that is complete BS. Or, the cops I asked were wrong. We just need to find the passage in the traffic act to set it straight. On a yellow, I can see the ticket as being valid. |
check out section 144 subsections 22-28
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/st...8_e.htm#s144s21
| quote: | Pedestrian crossing
(22) Where portions of a roadway are marked for pedestrian use, no pedestrian shall cross the roadway except within a portion so marked. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (22).
Pedestrian – green light
(23) Subject to subsections (24) and (27), a pedestrian approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular green indication or a straight-ahead green arrow indication and facing the indication may cross the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (23).
Pedestrian – stopping at flashing green light
(24) No pedestrian approaching a traffic control signal and facing a flashing circular green indication or a solid or a flashing left turn arrow indication in conjunction with a circular green indication shall enter the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (24).
Pedestrian – stopping at red or amber light
(25) No pedestrian approaching a traffic control signal and facing a red or amber indication shall enter the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (25).
Pedestrian control signals – walk
(26) Where pedestrian control signals are installed and show a “walk” indication, every pedestrian facing the indication may cross the roadway in the direction of the indication despite subsections (24) and (25). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (26).
Pedestrian control signals – don’t walk
(27) No pedestrian approaching pedestrian control signals and facing a solid or flashing “don’t walk” indication shall enter the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (27).
Pedestrian right of way
(28) Every pedestrian who lawfully enters a roadway in order to cross may continue the crossing as quickly as reasonably possible despite a change in the indication he or she is facing and, for purposes of the crossing, has the right of way over vehicles. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (28).
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| Jayx1 |
nice... so they are going to fine everything that literally moves in toronto..
how wonderful.
im so glad i live here! |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Pedestrian – stopping at flashing green light
(24) No pedestrian approaching a traffic control signal and facing a flashing circular green indication or a solid or a flashing left turn arrow indication in conjunction with a circular green indication shall enter the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (24).
Pedestrian – stopping at red or amber light
(25) No pedestrian approaching a traffic control signal and facing a red or amber indication shall enter the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (25).
Pedestrian control signals – walk
(26) Where pedestrian control signals are installed and show a “walk” indication, every pedestrian facing the indication may cross the roadway in the direction of the indication despite subsections (24) and (25). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (26).
Pedestrian control signals – don’t walk
(27) No pedestrian approaching pedestrian control signals and facing a solid or flashing “don’t walk” indication shall enter the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (27). |
this still doesn't explain what to do when there is a flashing read countdown of 10 to 0 or 20 to 0 - that's neither yellow nor red really
I don't even see pedestrian crossing that turn amber - they're either green, red or flashing the 10 seconds to you |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
this still doesn't explain what to do when there is a flashing read countdown of 10 to 0 or 20 to 0 - that's neither yellow nor red really
I don't even see pedestrian crossing that turn amber - they're either green, red or flashing the 10 seconds to you |
I'd say a countdown means you have until 0 until then walk away otherwise why have a countdown during a flashing red? |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Endlesswave
I'd say a countdown means you have until 0 until then walk away otherwise why have a countdown during a flashing red? |
that's what I thought but read the star article - the kid got ticketed at 2 seconds flashing! I personally crossed at 2 and 3 seconds all the time, not only that's enough time to cross at any big intersection, it's also red for cars maybe 2 extra seconds when the pedestrian light turns solid red |
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| Dark_Archonis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
i think thats a case of a ticket happy cop. If this indeed is a ticketable offence and they are actually fining people for it, this is a new low even for our city/province.
I dont even think Singapore is that bad
PS: in singapore they had fences along the road so that u could only cross at crosswalks. But here is the catch. Major roads in Singapore were almost like expressways that go through the city but with controlled signaled intersections. Cars moved about 70 or 80 klicks. Pedestrians were kept on the sidewalk to move about freely and cars were kept on the road to move about freely. It seemed to work just fine. Businesses were abundant along the roads, there were lots of pedestrians. Transit was great. And cars moved! |
That is way too logical for it to ever happen in Toronto. Many cities in Europe are also quite logical with how they deal with pedestrians and cars in busy locations. |
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| OrZonE |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
this still doesn't explain what to do when there is a flashing read countdown of 10 to 0 or 20 to 0 - that's neither yellow nor red really
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| quote: | Originally posted by smuncky
Pedestrian control signals – don’t walk
(27) No pedestrian approaching pedestrian control signals and facing a solid or flashing “don’t walk” indication shall enter the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (27).
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When it counts down, it flashes. |
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| kaniz |
The other day I saw a police officer stop a few people that were cutting across Yonge near Yonge & Eglinton - he didn't seem to be issuing tickets, just "Informing that there have been 14 deaths this year already"
They really need to put a pedestrian cross-walk at Roehampton - the distance between Eglinton & Broadway is just far enough to be really, annoying - there are a number of offices/schools in the area, and at lunch time the number of people playing 'dodge the traffic' is nuts. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by OrZonE
When it counts down, it flashes. |
it's not a "don't walk" flashing, what are you on about?:) as far as everyone thinks, it tells you that you have 10 seconds to cross.. otherwise it would just red all together for pedestrians |
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
it's not a "don't walk" flashing, what are you on about?:) as far as everyone thinks, it tells you that you have 10 seconds to cross.. otherwise it would just red all together for pedestrians |
the flashing hand and the countdown is simultaneous.
http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/...alk-signal.html |
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| FunkyCrew |
thanks Capt. Obvious :)
I meant that flashing red countdown/hand =/ do not walk but = you've got 10/20 seconds to finish crossing the road (theorically)
is there a clear explanation if flashing red hand + countdown actually means DO NOT cross? obv. when the hand is solid it's stop!, but what is the point of the 10 sec. countdown otherwise? |
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
thanks Capt. Obvious :)
I meant that flashing red countdown/hand =/ do not walk but = you've got 10/20 seconds to finish crossing the road (theorically)
is there a clear explanation if flashing red hand + countdown actually means DO NOT cross? obv. when the hand is solid it's stop!, but what is the point of the 10 sec. countdown otherwise? |
subsection 27 clearly states that. |
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