Originally posted by Comrade Stalin
How do you know what she is trying to do? She has created something nobody else has ever done in the way she does it. And good pop? She's pwning the billboards with consecutive top 10 singles, and you say...it's not good pop? Does not compute.
just because songs are on a billboard doesn't exactly make them good quality music.
you say she has created something nobody else has ever done in the way she does it, tell me, what is that?
i don't think she deserves so much admiration, that's all.
/rant.
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by yukii
just because songs are on a billboard doesn't exactly make them good quality music.
What makes it good music then? If she's making pop(ular) music, and it's popular, how can you say it isn't good? Her music does exactly what it is supposed to do — namely, entertain as many listeners as possible.
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
What makes it good music then? If she's making pop(ular) music, and it's popular, how can you say it isn't good? Her music does exactly what it is supposed to do — namely, entertain as many listeners as possible.
Appeal to popularity fallacy, Lira. How exactly do you determine how many listeners it's possible to entertain, anyway?
yukii
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
What makes it good music then? If she's making pop(ular) music, and it's popular, how can you say it isn't good? Her music does exactly what it is supposed to do — namely, entertain as many listeners as possible.
oh yes, im sure it's good 'ol commercialized pop music alright.
but my point stands, just because a song is at the top of the billboards doesn't mean it's good quality gucci mane, and this:
are, i suppose, good quality music since they're are on the billboards.
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Appeal to popularity fallacy, Lira.
Not in this case: pop music is made to be liked, not to be a ground-breaking revolution in the history of music. If it is made to be liked by the masses, and is indeed liked by hoards of people, than it achieved its goal.
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
How exactly do you determine how many listeners it's possible to entertain, anyway?
Well, give her lots of airplay and see if she sells records. The more records she sells, the more listeners she's probably entertained. If you make sure she's given enough opportunities to be shoved down the throat of each and everyone of us, the conversion rate is the largest possible amount of listeners she's entertained.
It's not really rocket science, is it? :p
ps.: I don't like her music, but to say pop music is bad when it's popular is like saying drum'n'bass sucks because it isn't slow.
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by yukii
oh yes, im sure it's good 'ol commercialized pop music alright.
but my point stands, just because a song is at the top of the billboards doesn't mean it's good quality gucci mane
And how can you judge quality in this case? What makes the music you posted good quality music as opposed to Lady Gaga's poor quality music?
yukii
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
And how can you judge quality in this case? What makes the music you posted good quality music as opposed to Lady Gaga's poor quality music?
i don't think you understood my point.
either way, i can't judge as to what is good/poor quality-it's all personal personal preference. being a pop artist, she is, but i don't think she deserves much credit for the costumes she pulls out her ass & washy electro.
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Not in this case: pop music is made to be liked, not to be a ground-breaking revolution in the history of music. If it is made to be liked by the masses, and is indeed liked by hoards of people, than it achieved its goal.
Achieving its goal doesn't necessarily make it good, as its goal may be misguided, especially if it is removed from artistic concerns, as "sell lots of records" is.
quote:
Well, give her lots of airplay and see if she sells records. The more records she sells, the more listeners she's probably entertained. If you make sure she's given enough opportunities to be shoved down the throat of each and everyone of us, the conversion rate is the largest possible amount of listeners she's entertained.
It's not really rocket science, is it? :p
That only gives you a roughly proportional indicator of how many people she has entertained. It doesn't say anything about how many people it's possible to entertain. You could argue that if she didn't piss a lot of people off she'd sell considerably more records, and thus she has failed. It's nonsense.
quote:
ps.: I don't like her music, but to say pop music is bad when it's popular is like saying drum'n'bass sucks because it isn't slow.
Nobody has said that. Quite the opposite - Krypton made the fallacious claim that her music is good because it's popular, which Yukii rightly refuted.
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Achieving its goal doesn't necessarily make it good, as its goal may be misguided, especially if it is removed from artistic concerns, as "sell lots of records" is.
It's pop music, mate, there's no such thing as "artistic concerns" here.
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
That only gives you a roughly proportional indicator of how many people she has entertained. It doesn't say anything about how many people it's possible to entertain. You could argue that if she didn't piss a lot of people off she'd sell considerably more records, and thus she has failed. It's nonsense.
I never said she reached the highest possible amount of entertained listeners, you're the one talking nonsense here, mate. I just said pop music must be sold to as many listeners as possible and, in order to get sold, you need to please as many persons as you can. There's no magical number here, much less a formula.
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Nobody has said that. Quite the opposite - Krypton made the fallacious claim that her music is good because it's popular, which Yukii rightly refuted.
It was not a fallacious claim: pop music is supposed to sell. If it does sell, then it is good pop music. Fin.
Adam420
I think she'd have to be much better looking to be considered "the modern Madonna".
SYSTEM-J
quote:
I never said she reached the highest possible amount of entertained listeners, you're the one talking nonsense here, mate. I just said pop music must be sold to as many listeners as possible and, in order to get sold, you need to please as many persons as you can. There's no magical number here, much less a formula.
Are you drunk? For the third time, how do you work out how many people it's possible to entertain? The maximum number of people it's possible to entertain is everyone on Earth, and since I am not entertained by Lady Gaga she is a ing failure. Argument over.
quote:
It was not a fallacious claim: pop music is supposed to sell. If it does sell, then it is good pop music. Fin.
Fridges are supposed to sell. Cars are supposed to sell. Any product is supposed to sell. If you bought a malfunctioning piece of fridge, is it good because it has got into stores and sold millions of units? No, it sucks because it can't keep your food cool properly. There is no seperate rule-set for pop music compared to all other music. Good and successful are not the same thing.
