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Someone explain this Lady Gaga video to me.. (pg. 8)
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| Chris Crossland |
| I'd still her face. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chris Crossland
I'd still her face. |
Really? |
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| Rose |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chris Crossland
I'd still her face. |
Have some self respect ffs. |
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| Chris Crossland |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rose
Have some self respect ffs. |
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| bananas |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rose
Have some self respect ffs. |
Weren't you ing sunsnail? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I'm asking you to prove she set out to make as much money as possible without any artistic intentions. That's your claim, that Lady Gaga = pop music = pure money making. You haven't proven any of it. She does actually write her own music, which is more than can be said for most pop stars. You're begging too many questions. |
You know, sometimes I think you get way too often in this sort of debate here on TA because you seem to take contrary opinions to stratospheric extremes. I said pop music has popularity as one of its goals, and should be judged by that because it is an important goal nonetheless (and I'm going to support this claim in a while)... but you're now claiming that I said it's pure money making? Well, it's supposed to be fun too (otherwise it wouldn't sell nearly as much :p)! Would you say that dance music is all about making people dance? To a large extent that's true because dance music is supposed to make people dance (duh). If it's innovative, that's a bonus, not a requirement.
If you read about the story of pop music you'll see that commercial success has always been an underlying theme throughout its history. And why should it be any different? Someone needs to support the artists and the artists that please more listeners get more rewards. That's why that text is full of quotes such as "[t]he major labels were reluctant to issue an album without a 'hit' single" and "[t]heir philosophy then — and still now — was to throw it all against the wall and see what stuck". To this day, artists are often praised by the amount of records they sold. Does that mean I enjoy their music? Not at all, I can't stand any of the artist cited on Wikipedia who sold more than a hundred million records. Except for "Go West" by the "Pet Shop Boys", because it reminds me of the Russian National Anthem :p
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
So? If you look at the sales it still sold countless millions. Vista was crap too, it ed over many friends of mine in many ways. Still sold millions. The Xbox 360 has a 100% failure rate on the RROD malfunction, it still sells millions. Once you've bought something, you're a sales figure. Lady Gaga's album might have disappointed 75% of the people who bought it, but because they paid money it topped the charts. |
Huh? Why the hell would your friends buy a product that sucks if they know it sucks? This is not just irrational, this is absurd! Unless they bought it before they had the chance to see it and/or they needed it for some reason (they wanted the Xbox 360 because of a game not available for other consoles, and that takes us back to the argument about fridges). To date, Lady Gaga has sold over eight million albums and over thirty-five million singles worldwide - are you really prepared to say that millions of people bought her album before listening to her music!?
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Crap products become best-sellers all the time. It's absolutely naive to pretend it doesn't happen. The general public are usually technically ignorant or companies like Microsoft become so omnipresent they can sell crap products to people who don't know better. Pop music is usually the same. Most pop fans I know aree genuinely amazed if they own an album that's good (gasp) all the way through. |
But they thought the album was worth having because of a handful of tracks, didn't they?
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Ultimately they work through the same effects on the brain: the translation of sound to emotional and physical response. And there are basic artistic principles that are adhered to, subverted or violated in their composition. And honestly Lira, it's 20ing10 and in the postmodern world we live in you're telling me high and low art have nothing in common? Listen to Jacques Lu Cont mix from Strauss into the Eurythmics on FabricLive 09. |
Once again, I said they're not equivalent (i.e. they don't have the same purpose, among other characteristics), but they do share something in common, reason why we refer to all these genres as music. It's a family resemblance thing.
I am surprised that you seem to have an extremely conservative view as if there was music was just one big monolith.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I don't want to sound pompous here, but as someone who's been critiquing music for a while I've put a lot more thought into what we should define as good or bad music - in any genre - than simply saying you shouldn't judge a record for what it's not trying to be. Like cultural relativism, you have to respect the requirements of a genre without excusing its crimes, otherwise all generic unicorn trance would be good music for succeeding at being generic unicorn trance, and we couldn't pick any faults with the ideas behind the genre because that's how unicorn trance works. There is a misguided philosophy behind most unicorn trance, and the problems with it are less to do with the musical characteristics as the shared mindset behind its creation. Praising music for achieving its goal without critiquing that goal itself is simple minded. |
Firstly, I've put a lot of thought on this as well, and the reason why we've come to diametrically opposed views on this matter is because, instead of looking for a higher ground from which I can judge all of music, I simply look at it as a craft. That's my deflationary theory of music: Does the music achieve the goals it is intended to pursue? If it does, then it's good music according to that standard. Now, whether or not these standards are worth pursuing has nothing to do with the music itself, but with the set of assumptions behind it: That's why I think it'd be laudable to teach about Johannes Sebastian Bach at school, but I'd be wary of talking about DJ Assault in most environments.
Even though, of course, Classical music can only wish it was as fun as ghetto tech. How awesome would it be if Mozart wrote operettas about big titty bitches!  |
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| Renzo |
| What Lira is eloquently trying to say is that Gaga sucks more than the girls in the Japanese porn he watches. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renzo
What Lira is eloquently trying to say is that Gaga sucks more than the girls in the Japanese porn he watches. |
Yes, precis-- Wait, what!? :stongue: |
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| Silky Johnson |
| Let us not forget that Lira thinks happy hardcore is good. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
Let us not forget that Lira thinks happy hardcore is good. |
Well, it depends a lot on the track, obviously. But, yeah, I'm one of those freaks that would puzzle System-J to no end because I can read Wittgenstein while I listen to Brisk and Trixxy :p
By the way, lest you all forget, I do not like Lady Gaga. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| That's the main thing. Carry on then. |
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| FallingMoon |
I dunno why but she reminds me of:
I can't stand her or her idiotic music. She's fuking annoying. |
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