I'm asking you to prove she set out to make as much money as possible without any artistic intentions. That's your claim, that Lady Gaga = pop music = pure money making. You haven't proven any of it. She does actually write her own music, which is more than can be said for most pop stars. You're begging too many questions.
quote:
It was so much of a best-seller that Microsoft had to release Windows XP to replace it the following year, despite the fact that they usually wait around 3 years before making their previous products obsolete. (Windows 95 -> Windows 98 (3 years) / Windows XP -> Windows Vista (4 years) / Windows Vista -> Windows 7 (3 years))
So? If you look at the sales it still sold countless millions. Vista was crap too, it ed over many friends of mine in many ways. Still sold millions. The Xbox 360 has a 100% failure rate on the RROD malfunction, it still sells millions. Once you've bought something, you're a sales figure. Lady Gaga's album might have disappointed 75% of the people who bought it, but because they paid money it topped the charts.
Crap products become best-sellers all the time. It's absolutely naive to pretend it doesn't happen. The general public are usually technically ignorant or companies like Microsoft become so omnipresent they can sell crap products to people who don't know better. Pop music is usually the same. Most pop fans I know aree genuinely amazed if they own an album that's good (gasp) all the way through.
quote:
I could say the very same thing about you: How can you consider pop music and classical music equivalent in any sense?
Ultimately they work through the same effects on the brain: the translation of sound to emotional and physical response. And there are basic artistic principles that are adhered to, subverted or violated in their composition. And honestly Lira, it's 20ing10 and in the postmodern world we live in you're telling me high and low art have nothing in common? Listen to Jacques Lu Cont mix from Strauss into the Eurythmics on FabricLive 09.
I don't want to sound pompous here, but as someone who's been critiquing music for a while I've put a lot more thought into what we should define as good or bad music - in any genre - than simply saying you shouldn't judge a record for what it's not trying to be. Like cultural relativism, you have to respect the requirements of a genre without excusing its crimes, otherwise all generic unicorn trance would be good music for succeeding at being generic unicorn trance, and we couldn't pick any faults with the ideas behind the genre because that's how unicorn trance works. There is a misguided philosophy behind most unicorn trance, and the problems with it are less to do with the musical characteristics as the shared mindset behind its creation. Praising music for achieving its goal without critiquing that goal itself is simple minded.
WebmaN
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Fridges are supposed to sell. Cars are supposed to sell. Any product is supposed to sell. If you bought a malfunctioning piece of fridge, is it good because it has got into stores and sold millions of units? No, it sucks because it can't keep your food cool properly. There is no seperate rule-set for pop music compared to all other music. Good and successful are not the same thing.
your argument is flawed. if you buy a car of a certain type, lets take a volkswagen golf, of which there are sold millions of. because they are, well.. good. but if that car breaks or doesn't do what it's supposed to do, then that particular car is flawed, not the whole type.
if you buy a cd single of lady gaga, lets take bad romance, of which there are sold millions of. because it is, well.. good. but if that dat cd single breaks or doesn't do what it's supposed to do, then that particular piece of cd is flawed, not the track itself.
so your good and succesful argument doesn't hold any ground..
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by WebmaN
your argument is flawed. if you buy a car of a certain type, lets take a volkswagen golf, of which there are sold millions of. because they are, well.. good. but if that car breaks or doesn't do what it's supposed to do, then that particular car is flawed, not the whole type.
It's only flawed if you can't comprehend the notion of a design fault.
WebmaN
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
It's only flawed if you can't comprehend the notion of a design fault.
well i haven't seen much atributes with design flawes in the top of any segment...
except for toyota maybe, or microsoft, or.. oh
idoru
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I'm asking you to prove she set out to make as much money as possible without any artistic intentions. That's your claim, that Lady Gaga = pop music = pure money making. You haven't proven any of it. She does actually write her own music, which is more than can be said for most pop stars. You're begging too many questions.
You know, I'm seeing that phrase about an artist writing his or her own music being thrown around far too much these days. It has become a selling point for almost every female pop star that is currently "in". In addition, you come off as trying to use that point as evidence that she's not in it for "pure money making". That doesn't apply to it at all, because she is still perfectly capable of going, "Hmm, is Virgin Mobile going to pay me $20,000 to reference their service in my song? Well let's see now, how can I fit that into my lyrics? Oh, I was talking about calling someone here, so maybe if I switch this with this..."
I'm not saying she does that, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by idoru
You know, I'm seeing that phrase about an artist writing his or her own music being thrown around far too much these days. It has become a selling point for almost every female pop star that is currently "in". In addition, you come off as trying to use that point as evidence that she's not in it for "pure money making".
I used it as evidence that she's at least capable of artistic decisions, rather than being a puppet voice and face of a corporate songwriting unit.
paulandrews
quote:
Originally posted by idoru
That doesn't apply to it at all, because she is still perfectly capable of going, "Hmm, is Virgin Mobile going to pay me $20,000 to reference their service in my song? Well let's see now, how can I fit that into my lyrics? Oh, I was talking about calling someone here, so maybe if I switch this with this..."
No, it's the other way around. She chooses the product placement based on the theme of the video.
jupiterone
basically
bananas
lady gaga is awesome
idoru
quote:
Originally posted by paulandrews
No, it's the other way around. She chooses the product placement based on the theme of the video.
