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Catholics are outraged...again (pg. 7)
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| MGT |
| quote: | | quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
You're absolutely right.
Furthermore, I think it's a fairly telling belief, that without God, there would be no morality. Essentially the person is admitting that without God, there is no reason on his or her part to behave ethically towards other people. Ergo, when you hear such an argument, it's more likely for you to be speaking to someone who has no conscience other than that simulated by a fear of retribution in the afterlife.
Pathological Narcissists will typically invoke God, co-opting Him (Her, It) in their beliefs to suit their purposes. Their self-worth and sense of entitlement will be somehow related to God working through them. If they steal from someone, it will be rationalized that God ordained it, or some other such poppycock. Regardless, people who actually use that argument scare me. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
I've always been scared by religious people who say that there is no morality without god. Some person in my ethics class last quarter went so far as to say that if god didn't exist he would do whatever he wanted, even going so far as to say he would kill his own mother if it would gain him something, since there would be no hell or heaven.
How the does this person think that they are good? They're doing everything out of a selfish motivation for heaven and a desire to avoid hell. How can they possibly think that they are better than an atheist who is nice, kind, gives to charity, volunteers, etc, etc, for no motivation at all except to help other people.
I'm always afraid that religious people like that are going to have a crisis of faith, grab a gun, and go on a rampage.
While I know that rationally that is probably just my anxiety disorder going haywire, there is some truth in the fact that religious people can be ing scary if they think all morality comes from god. So if they get schizophrenia and 'god' tells them they have to shoot everyone at the store, they'll ing do it. |
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Eddie, is this the reason why China/current Chinese government is anti-religion? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by MGT
Eddie, is this the reason why China/current Chinese government is anti-religion? |
Nope. Authoritarian regimes are always wary of powerbases that could threaten their authority. Religion has a whole lot of potential energy and influence. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by MGT
Eddie, is this the reason why China/current Chinese government is anti-religion? |
No. The Chinese government is against religion because religion represents an organization outside of their dominion. They dislike Falun Gong because, essentially, they will not submit the Chinese authority regarding assembly, among other things. Even though the "cult", as the Chinese Government refers to it, actually promotes teachings in keeping with the morality promoted by the government, they, never-the-less, are not the government and, furthermore, promote obedience to an authority higher than the government, itself.
The goal of the Chinese government is to maintain control over the person's mind. To quote Saddam Hussein, "Where there is a person, there is a problem. Where there is no person, there is no problem." Essentially he was speaking to the obliteration of a person's identity in order to subjugate them. Be it through fear or reward and usually a combination of the two, a person who lacks identity - knowledge of who they are and a belief system supportive of that and reflected in their role within social structures and society on the whole - is wholly supplicant to authority.
They will act, when commanded to do so, regardless of whether that action is right or wrong because they have no sense of what right and wrong is. Falun Gong promotes that sense of right and wrong, and for the Chinese Government, especially when it comes to large numbers of its population, that is a very dangerous thing outside of their control. |
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| MGT |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
No. The Chinese government is against religion because religion represents an organization outside of their dominion. They dislike Falun Gong because, essentially, they will not submit the Chinese authority regarding assembly, among other things. Even though the "cult", as the Chinese Government refers to it, actually promotes teachings in keeping with the morality promoted by the government, they, never-the-less, are not the government and, furthermore, promote obedience to an authority higher than the government, itself.
The goal of the Chinese government is to maintain control over the person's mind. To quote Saddam Hussein, "Where there is a person, there is a problem. Where there is no person, there is no problem." Essentially he was speaking to the obliteration of a person's identity in order to subjugate them. Be it through fear or reward and usually a combination of the two, a person who lacks identity - knowledge of who they are and a belief system supportive of that and reflected in their role within social structures and society on the whole - is wholly supplicant to authority.
They will act, when commanded to do so, regardless of whether that action is right or wrong because they have no sense of what right and wrong is. Falun Gong promotes that sense of right and wrong, and for the Chinese Government, especially when it comes to large numbers of its population, that is a very dangerous thing outside of their control. |
I like how you bring up Saddam Hussein into this. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by MGT
I like how you bring up Saddam Hussein into this. |
nice refutation. |
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| djhaziel |
| The Lord works in mysterious ways |
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| MGT |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
nice refutation. |
That's your interpretation. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by MGT
I like how you bring up Saddam Hussein into this. |
How so? (Or are you being facetious? And, if so demonstrate its irrelevance.) |
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| MGT |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
How so? (Or are you being facetious? And, if so demonstrate its irrelevance.) |
We're talking about China, not Iraq. |
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| djhaziel |
| Ezequiel 25 : 17 |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by MGT
We're talking about China, not Iraq. |
Granted. The same principals in both places, still apply. China's a little more sophisticated about it, but Saddam's quote boils it down to a very simple statement of the over-arching agenda of totalitarianism. It is about domination, pure and simple, and not just domination, but domination of the individual's identity. |
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| MGT |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Granted. The same principals in both places, still apply. China's a little more sophisticated about it, but Saddam's quote boils it down to a very simple statement of the over-arching agenda of totalitarianism. It is about domination, pure and simple, and not just domination, but domination of the individual's identity. |
Saddam doesn't represent China though. Totalitarianism in theory, yes, but how would one know what is and what isn't current Chinese government's or leader's agenda? Aside from your tendencies of painting an embellished picture that leaves an aftertaste of maybe personal vendetta instead of being objective, I agree that control may be the reason for anti-religious policies. |
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