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Union Jack - Vuvuzelas (pg. 3)
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| Johan (DJ Irish) |
I somewhat agree with System-J here. I was very excited to see Simon get back into producing after all these years. Having so much fond memories of his work in the 90s. However, when I heard the new stuff I was quite disapointed to hear his sound hasn't been updated at all. It almost felt it was leftover tracks from 95 that he suddenly found and released.
I mean, what would a creative mind like Simon's do with all the technical advances of modern music production? Apparently nothing as he preferred to linger with whatever eqiupment thawed up along side himself :p |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by skip
I can't see how Longhorn would be any lazier effort than Persia. I'd put them in the same category, based on effort and how they differ from other music etc. I happen to like Longhorn and dislike Persia though, that's why I personally rate Longhorn higher. |
Because there's clearly a lot more going on in Persia? Because it tries something different to what he'd already explored a million times before?
| quote: | Originally posted by stevö
i agree but you cant have a set full of nothing but masterpieces, got to have some filler, maybe thats the purpose of it? |
Well, for one I never like the excuse that something's a DJ tool. "DJ tool" or "filler" or whatever means it only works in a specific context, or requires extensive manipulation by a DJ to work properly. In turn, that means as a piece of music the track is very limited.
Secondly, even though you can't have "peak time floorfillers" constantly, that doesn't give a filler license to be . I'm not calling this track boring because it isn't a massive anthem, I'm calling it boring because it has absolutely no ideas. The only way it's trancey or hypnotic is by being extremely repetitive, which is the same you could call minimal techno entrancing.
Finally, even if we accept this track was written to be a a filler track, a set-builder, a bit of downtime, whatever... it still sounds exactly like the stuff he was making in 1995. Simon Berry and Platipus have come a long way since then, and this track is a total regression. |
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| skip |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Because there's clearly a lot more going on in Persia? Because it tries something different to what he'd already explored a million times before?
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A lot more going on? Sure, but that doesn't make a track any better or more creative in any way. You could always add more elements to any track, but sometimes less is more.
Tries something different than what he's already explored a million times before? :nervous: Mashing a bit of the popular twinkly prog sound with his classic trance? I wouldn't really call that something different. I would say that Longhorn is every bit as different from his old sound than Persia is (ie. not very much), no matter how you feel about these two tracks.
I agree that he could have moved on more with his sound. But he hasn't. Not with Persia nor with Longhorn, even though IMO they both sound somewhat different to his older stuff. Still, I'm happier with him producing these type of tracks rather than having moved on to some trendy bull sound or terrible epic trance for example. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| You think Persia sounds like twinkly prog? Even if it did, how many people have combined acid trance with twinkly prog? |
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| Scratchula |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
it still sounds exactly like the stuff he was making in 1995 |
I disagree. It's nowhere near that good. It sounds like a half assed, watered down, empty and dull attempt to emulate that sound of the 90s while removing all of the elements that made Simon Berry's 93-95 era productions hypnotic and interesting. |
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| DancingMonkey |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scratchula
I disagree. It's nowhere near that good. It sounds like a half assed, watered down, empty and dull attempt to emulate that sound of the 90s while removing all of the elements that made Simon Berry's 93-95 era productions hypnotic and interesting. |
While true, it's still better than pretty much any trance that came out since about 1998. I think it's because he fell off the map for so long. When he started producing, he was making music that was new and exciting. Also, Techno and House were getting old, and people were ready for this new, innovative, hypnotic Trance stuff. The times demanded it.
When you leave for 10 years and let Oakenfold and Tiesto take over, then come back, things just aren't the same. How can he even be inspired now the way he was back then? He founded the first trance label in britain. Now there's probably hundreds. It's just not the same atmosphere he had back then, and he has probably changed a lot as a person and musically. Plus he has a new co-producer. |
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| skip |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You think Persia sounds like twinkly prog? Even if it did, how many people have combined acid trance with twinkly prog? |
I don't. I think it sounds like he's mashed a bit of the popular twinkly prog sound with his classic trance. And I have no idea how many people have do that as I'm no expert of either genre. To me it sounds like classic proper trance made more acceptable to the twinkly prog masses by toning it down a bit and making it more poppy. I don't find that creative, quite the opposite. Uniqueness is a hard thing to comment on, especially like I said, I'm no expert of either genre. But even if someone does something no one else has ever done before, is it automatically better than something that has been done before?
I just don't find Persia unique in any way. It's got nothing to it IMO. Can you tell me what makes it so unique/creative in your opinion? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DancingMonkey
Plus he has a new co-producer. |
You mean Paul Brogdan, who he's worked with as Clanger since 1994? That must be a creative challenge.
| quote: | Originally posted by skip
And I have no idea how many people have do that as I'm no expert of either genre. |
So how can you possibly think you have any right to comment on how original it is? If you can't name one single track that sounds like it, you have absolutely no grounds to say "I don't find it unique in any way".
Persia, along with Mongoose and Turkish Bizarre, has a much more Middle Eastern influence than Berry's older work, which was mostly themed around nature, with lots of samples of crickets, frogs, flowing water, tribal instruments etc. It also doesn't have much of a psy-trance influence, which is relatively uncommon for Middle Eastern-themed trance. It's got 21st Century production quality but it doesn't sound like epic trance, and it certainly doesn't sound like ing twinkly prog.
And no, sounding different does not automatically mean better, but people who aren't conservative and safe about music do not want producers to remake the same template 30+ times. Ever heard the phrase "Familiarity breeds contempt?" I'd rather Berry/Brogdan made nothing and just play the originals than watch them churn out endless tired rehashes and praise them for it.
And while I'm ranting, this is about far more than just one boring track. It's about the entire mentality of the trance scene. I'm sick of "proper trance" fans who have absolutely nothing to offer, listen to nothing outside their genre, think combining progressive house and psy-trance in a DJ set is highly eclectic and praise music by saying "It's still better than anything made since 1998" because they're too regressive to look for new music. And then when someone criticises a track the only riposte they can think of is "You must like Armin and Tiesto" because in their tunnel-vision little trance world, those are the options. |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by rory21
is this available online anywhere? |
Tip. The track is called Longhorn, not Vuvuzelas. |
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| RebeL9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by skip
I personally think Persia sucks. It's just boring and bland and not special in any way.
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Totally agree. I know that montana have been hyping it ever since it was released but come on. Having a great vocalist as Natacha Atlas in your boat and the end result being something as weak as Persia is... meh. |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I'm sick of "proper trance" fans who have absolutely nothing to offer, listen to nothing outside their genre, think combining progressive house and psy-trance in a DJ set is highly eclectic |
No one ever said that. The point was that it's more than most trance DJs attempt these days. It was acknowledged that this is nothing approaching eclectic in the wider sense of DJing. |
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| Guest |
way to ruin the thread system-j.
The track rocks end of story. |
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