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New ban! Starting Aug 1, 21 and under cannot have ANY alcohol in blood while driving! (pg. 11)
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| Jayx1 |
of course most people will support it.
a) Because its a feel good law.
b)the canadian attitude is "it doesnt affect me, so sure why not?"
But that doesnt make it right. |
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| TheDemon |
| In all reality, you guys can sit here all you want and argue about this new law, but the fact of the matter is it's been passed. Saying it's unfair or unconstitutional, or some countries have it different isn't going to change a thing. Plus, if you're over 21, what the hell do you care, it doesn't affect you? Move on with your lives. I am sure you have more important things going on in your lives anyways. |
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| geroin |
| quote: | Originally posted by TheDemon
In all reality, you guys can sit here all you want and argue about this new law, but the fact of the matter is it's been passed. Saying it's unfair or unconstitutional, or some countries have it different isn't going to change a thing. Plus, if you're over 21, what the hell do you care, it doesn't affect you? Move on with your lives. I am sure you have more important things going on in your lives anyways. |
ohh ok |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by TheDemon
In all reality, you guys can sit here all you want and argue about this new law, but the fact of the matter is it's been passed. Saying it's unfair or unconstitutional, or some countries have it different isn't going to change a thing. Plus, if you're over 21, what the hell do you care, it doesn't affect you? Move on with your lives. I am sure you have more important things going on in your lives anyways. |
Actually it does affect me. First because i work in entertainment. Second because laws that set this mentality in motion (ban and regulate) will eventually bite everyone in the ass including you when they start meddling with your lifestyle choices.
As I said, our whole way of dealing with alcohol in Canada needs to mature in a big way. |
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| Jayx1 |
I hope he wins!
| quote: | 20-year-old files challenge to no-booze law for young drivers
The Canadian Press
TORONTO — Kevin Wiener has a sobering message for the Ontario government -- he thinks the new booze ban for young drivers is unconstitutional.
The 20-year-old Toronto resident is filing an application in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice challenging the law that came into effect Sunday.
Wiener says the law restricts based on age, instead of experience.
"I believe that it's experience that determines whether you can possibly drive after you have a drink with dinner, not your age," he said.
The law prohibits drivers under the age of 22 from having any trace of alcohol in their system when operating a motor vehicle.
Since the rule came into effect on Sunday, five people have been issued 24-hour driving suspensions by the Ontario Provincial Police under the new law.
According to MADD Canada, while drivers aged 16 to 24 make up just 13 per cent of the population, they represent 33 per cent of deaths caused by drunk driving.
However, Wiener says it's not fair that new drivers who are older do not face the same restrictions as young drivers -- and points out that some younger drivers may have more experience on the road.
"While it's true that all young drivers are inexperienced, not all inexperienced drivers are young," he said.
Wiener says this is a form of age discrimination and it's unconstitutional.
If people are old enough to fly jets in the military, serve jury duty, and vote -- they are old enough to make sensible decisions about drinking and driving, Wiener says. He plans to file his challenge to the new law on Wednesday.
"Adults are adults," he said. "And (Premier) Dalton McGuinty is trying to treat people who are 21 years old like they're children, and they're not." |
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| Intangible |
I did a quick scroll through and didnt see this posted yet... Great to see someone at such a young age actively doing something about this. I hope a lawyer will hop on this.
Alcohol ban for young drivers faces Charter challenge
August 03, 2010
Robert Benzie
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Kevin Wiener, 20, is set to launch on Wednesday his challenge of the province's zero-tolerance drinking legislation for drivers aged 21 and under.
A 20-year-old Conservative activist is challenging a controversial new provincial law that makes it illegal for young drivers to drink alcohol before getting behind the wheel.
Toronto’s Kevin Wiener, who tools around in a 1988 Cadillac he got from his grandfather, will file an application in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice on Wednesday.
The law that took effect Sunday requires drivers aged 21 and under to have a blood alcohol content of zero.
Wiener, a business student at the University of Western Ontario, said the law is unconstitutional because it discriminates solely on the basis of age.
“Talk to my friends, I’m actually the last person to do any risky behaviours or stuff like that,” he said Tuesday, emphasizing he does not approve of drunk driving.
“This law is discriminating on age and it should be based on years of experience (driving),” said Wiener, suggesting a fairer model is the Manitoba law that prevents all drivers from drinking for their first five years under that province’s graduated licensing system.
“The Charter (of Rights and Freedoms) prohibits discrimination based on age.”
While Wiener is a federal and provincial Conservative party member, he insisted the legal crusade is his alone and is not driven by partisan politics or a desire to embarrass Premier Dalton McGuinty’s Liberals.
“Right now, I’m self-representing. I’m driving a 22-year-old car, so if I had $30,000 or $40,000 to burn, it wouldn’t be going to lawyers’ fees,” he said.
“This really isn’t a left-right issue. As a young person, I don’t feel it’s fair for the government (to do this). I’ve been driving for four years, I have a clean driving record, I have no demerit points ever and the government’s saying that because I’m 20, I can’t be trusted to have a glass of wine with dinner.”
Transportation Minister Kathleen Wynne said in an interview that she’s “comfortable” the new legislation can withstand any legal challenge.
“We’ve changed these rules based on evidence. We looked at the stats. We know that at the age of 22 the statistics start to change, so 19, 20, and 21 are really peak years for drinking and driving,” said Wynne.
“As a society, we’ve made a lot of decisions based on age,” she noted.
“Young people can’t get their licence till they’re 16, they can’t vote till they’re 18, they can’t drink till they’re 19. Every two years, anybody over 80 … has to do a written test and if there’s a problem, they have to take a driving test.”
Still, NDP MPP Peter Kormos (Welland) said the government may have a rocky road ahead.
“At first glance, the law clearly is discriminatory,” said Kormos, a lawyer and the New Democrats’ justice critic.
“Maybe it’s time for us in Canada to adopt a standard that’s prevalent in so many European countries of literal zero tolerance for drinking and driving,” he said.
“That makes it so much easier. You don’t have to try to guess your breathalyzer limit, you don’t have to play with some toy machine in a bar that costs you $2 to measure your breath with. Don’t drink and drive – it’s so easy.”
Under Ontario’s new law, drivers aged 21 or younger lose their licences for 24 hours if even trace amounts of alcohol are detected in the blood. A second offence could result in a 90-day suspension and a third violation could spell the loss of driving privileges.
McGuinty’s government amended its youth driving legislation after a campaign by Tim Mulcahy, whose son Tyler, 20, was killed in a July 2008 car crash after an afternoon of drinking at a Muskoka club.
Two of his friends also died when his high-powered Audi S4 crashed into a river.
Mulcahy took out full-page newspaper ads and lobbied politicians of all stripes to tighten the rules for young drivers.
Charter Challenges
Challenging a law as unconstitutional under the 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms requires a legal journey that begins in a lower court.
In this province, the complainant applies to the Ontario Superior Court of Justice to have the law considered null and void.
When the court rules in favour of the applicant, the law is not usually struck down right away. Instead, the government is given a reasonable amount of time —perhaps six months to a year—to amend the legislation.
If the court rules in favour of the government, the applicant could take the case up the legal ladder to the Court of Appeal. (This avenue is also open to the government if it is ordered to amend a law.)
In Ontario, Court of Appeal rulings are binding unless overturned by the Supreme Court of Canada.
That means either the government or the complainant could continue the legal battle to the highest court in the land.
When a law is challenged as unconstitutional, courts tend to expedite proceedings so that the entire process, in some cases, takes less than a year. |
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| geroin |
| quote: | Originally posted by Intangible
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fail, post above yours :p |
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| Intangible |
| quote: | Originally posted by geroin
fail, post above yours :p |
hahaha :stongue: |
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| TheDemon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
As I said, our whole way of dealing with alcohol in Canada needs to mature in a big way. |
Instead of putting all of this effort in arguing with everyone on this board, why don't you do something about this issue if you feel so strong about it? Like this Kevin Wiener dude who wants to challenge it. Join him. Other than that what are you expecting to happen? |
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| love_child |
| quote: | Originally posted by TheDemon
Instead of putting all of this effort in arguing with everyone on this board, why don't you do something about this issue if you feel so strong about it? Like this Kevin Wiener dude who wants to challenge it. Join him. Other than that what are you expecting to happen? |
Didnt you know? You cant beat the government :p |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by TheDemon
Instead of putting all of this effort in arguing with everyone on this board, why don't you do something about this issue if you feel so strong about it? Like this Kevin Wiener dude who wants to challenge it. Join him. Other than that what are you expecting to happen? |
I am an active member of 2 political parties, i also engage in debate across various forums and routinely write letters to MPs, MPPS, or speak to them in person.
Unfortunately I dont have the time or money to take this to court or i would.
Actively engaging in debate on chat boards is also important as it gets people talking and thinking about the issues from different angles. |
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| Spam |
*Checks driver's license*
Whew, I'm still 25 :)
That charter challenge will probably result in an amendment such that the law will be based on driving experience instead of age.
The only problem I have with the law is that it's based strictly on age, and not experience. What if some useless sod gets their license at 22? They're still not 100% comfortable behind the wheel, it being new to them and all, and a couple of drinks could affect them way more than even a 19 year old who's been driving since 16...
I'm all for keeping the roads safe, but hell, do it right! |
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