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Quick Message then a shameless TA Top 250 plug for a GREAT producer (pg. 5)
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| Mad for Brad |
Depends what you do. There are people that just make themes for TV shows and they get a royalty every time the show airs so imagine that being syndicated across the country and how much money you can make. There are so many types of shows with different styled musical scheme that you can't loop them all together.
In general , deadlines are quicker , your team and the budget is smaller but in a way you do have more freedom. Most TV show scoring doesn't use live orchestras and there is a closer bridge between composition and production. Unlike a film, the cues tend to be quite short and the overall form I suppose in the way the form of a show compared to a movie is just more simple. I have only done 1 TV show so far and there was alot of work up front but you kind of keep replugging the same music for different episodes so once you get the initial work out of the way, it can be quite a comfortable thing.
One doesn't really lead to the other as a form of graduation. They are different. I wouldn't really say it is the kiddie pool. You have less time, less money to work with so the results reflect that but honestly, some shows have great music but they tend to be the big network prime time shows with a fairly large budget. I've heard better music in some TV shows lately than I have in some really big films.
The trend in TV tho seems to be the plugging of actual music and cross marketing so I do see it as a declining industry for some reason. |
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| Ravist |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Another brilliant read. You guys should collab on a book. This stuff is totally interesting.
To me, at least. |
I would buy it for sure. Definitely an interesting read, I think differently about Paul now. It's not fair that he got so much credit for doing almost nothing. Alas, thats life, things aren't always fair. |
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| JEO |
A quick question:
In the process of shooting, cutting the movie etc. where is all the composing done? I mean, does the composer have the ready movie in his hands when he starts composing to it? Or is the composing done like scene by scene (or wherever there is music due in the movie)?
Or perhaps, is the composer just being handed the script and he is bound to work the composing from there? |
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| Stephen Wiley |
Question for MAd for Brad and Rann......
Just a general question on somebody who I really, really like in the film scoring business. Just curious to know if you have anything you could tell me about him. (Feel free to PM if you don't want to write it publicly)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Murphy_%28composer%29
His work is extremely pleasing to me. In particular 28 days later and Sunshine. I still hear his theme from Sunshine being used (note for note) in movies being released to this day. At an age of just 45, do you think he is on the way to becoming a star?
I really hope so. Most of his scores (not all) do such an amazing job inflicting emotion into a movie. After watching both 28 days later and Sunshine I immediately started cutting vocal clips and writing MIDI to do bootleg remixes. Such inspiration. I found out shortly after 28 days later was already stepped on (Future Disciple - 28 Tracks Later) but I'm still working on Sunshine which is my masterpiece. (Yes I know Mark Sherry sampled it but not the way I am)
Sorry for the long post. Do enjoy your posts. Would like to have a chat sometime. |
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| Stephen Wiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by JEO
A quick question:
In the process of shooting, cutting the movie etc. where is all the composing done? I mean, does the composer have the ready movie in his hands when he starts composing to it? Or is the composing done like scene by scene (or wherever there is music due in the movie)?
Or perhaps, is the composer just being handed the script and he is bound to work the composing from there? |
I can give you a hollow answer (Brad will be able to provide an elaborate one) but you usually at least have some blue prints done for the scenes. Sometimes during film production they'll roll the music. I'm certain most of it is done though on the fly as the movie is being shot with the icing on top being done after the movie is complete. Probably different with small budget films. (Bulk of the work done before hand) |
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| Mad for Brad |
| It really depends on the scope of the film and the type of composer. If it is a very big project, the composer will usually have a pretty good idea of the film before it is locked by the stage and prop design, the script and the description by the director. The composer usually has a few ideas but nothing set in stone. Once or close to locking the picture, the composer and director do a spotting session. They go thru the film and decide where their needs to be music and where there does not need to be music. The composer also has a temp track usually compiled from other soundtrack music which is usually made by the music supervisor or even the director. The composer at this point usually works on the cues providing examples via an orchestral mockup as the director usually wants some idea as to how the music is taking shape. The rest is a back and forth dialogue between the director and the composer working together to make the music fit the film and most importantly the director's vision. The composing, orchestrating and recording tend to all be happening at the same time as things are slightly changed, re recorded , adjusted …. |
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| Stephen Wiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stephen Wiley
Question for MAd for Brad and Rann......
Just a general question on somebody who I really, really like in the film scoring business. Just curious to know if you have anything you could tell me about him. (Feel free to PM if you don't want to write it publicly)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Murphy_%28composer%29
His work is extremely pleasing to me. In particular 28 days later and Sunshine. I still hear his theme from Sunshine being used (note for note) in movies being released to this day. At an age of just 45, do you think he is on the way to becoming a star?
I really hope so. Most of his scores (not all) do such an amazing job inflicting emotion into a movie. After watching both 28 days later and Sunshine I immediately started cutting vocal clips and writing MIDI to do bootleg remixes. Such inspiration. I found out shortly after 28 days later was already stepped on (Future Disciple - 28 Tracks Later) but I'm still working on Sunshine which is my masterpiece. (Yes I know Mark Sherry sampled it but not the way I am)
Sorry for the long post. Do enjoy your posts. Would like to have a chat sometime. |
Any thoughts here MFB? |
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| Mad for Brad |
| I don't even know what the question is. |
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| Stephen Wiley |
| What are your thoughts on him? Going to be a star? Just another 'guy'....do you like his work? Are you familiar with it and perhaps how he works? If I was ever to do film, I would definately be trying to model myself after his scores. |
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| Mad for Brad |
I just don't know what you mean by star. There aren't really any to speak of. You honestly think anyone outside of the film business would recognize Zimmer ? Yes I like his work and I do think he makes a comfortable living but his work is definitely too esoteric to be retained for A list feature films. That isn't a judgement of his talent. I don't particularly find him that great as a film composer though I really do enjoy his aesthetic. I don't think he wants to be star as he is quite comfortable doing the style he has for the movies that fit his style. So no, I don't see him being a "Star". I think most composers would rather do what he does than be a "Star". People that care about being stars are young adults or douche bag adults like oakenfold for example.
As far as modelling ? Do you know what you are modelling ? That is the problem with people thinking they know what film scoring is about. A scoring style is not defined by just the music but more so how it supports the drama. His cues are all pretty long and all very static conveying 1 particular emotion which tends to border on the over sentimental side. That works for some movies but for most, you need to be more dynamic which his scores definitely aren't.
Sorry but this is huge problem with people wanting to compose for film or even people that try to compose for film. They think film music is a genre that has a particular sound. People listen to it without the video and say, hey this is great soundtrack music. It isn't a soundtrack if it isn't with video. If you separate them , you get something else. You can have the greatest music you've ever heard but that doesn't mean it will be a good soundtrack. I would say one of his weaknesses is making music that does not convey any emotion. That is what is hard. Not making sentimental music like in Sunshine. That is extremely easy and any composer can do that. Try making 3 minutes of music where the director says, I don't want to convey anything.
Too many people have trouble with the music side of film scoring that they don't even realize the intellectual component of it. They get so wrapped up in basic things like chords and orchestration that they fail to see the big picture. This is usually due to lack of formal training and lack of experience. You can see this with most young wannabe film composers by their demo reel full of cheesy epic brass string tutti arrangements because they are trying to emulate a kind of chord style and instrument setting. That isn't film scoring. That is just making sentimental orchestral music with really uninspired harmony and usually awful orchestration. |
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| JEO |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
People listen to it without the video and say, hey this is great soundtrack music. It isn't a soundtrack if it isn't with video. If you separate them , you get something else. |
Hahah, on last.fm I spotted some random artists (even edm I remember) tagged as "film score". Lol. I know it'll become a trend, after 2-3 years "film score" will just be a genre that people compose in front of their comp at home. There'll be film score DJs too I hope.
I can totally double you on the communication part; My gf asked me to make a simple tune for her VLOG. It had to be no more than a minute long, but we had a huge ing fight over what it should have been. She tried to explain it to me for hours, until I just asked her to play something from youtube so I could get some perspective for what she is after. And she played something really electric and housy. That was too much for me. I quit. I had ing been working on an ambient track for hours and she couldn't simply say "it lacks a 4/4 kick drum".
So I can somehow relate to the part where the director just can't say what he ought the composer to compose. I also wonder how much a composer will let his personal likes affect the way he does film score. I mean there has to be some kind of a stamp for you to be recognisable, like that guy who does the classical dramatic orchestration on various war / action movies? Can't remember the name.
ANd since it's friday, I'm a bit tipsy. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Another brilliant read. You guys should collab on a book. This stuff is totally interesting.
To me, at least. |
In some ways I wish I could but there's no way the non disclosure agreements I've signed would let me - it would destroy my professional career and ruin me financially. I can only really talk generics and how the overall process works.
As for the process of scoring, m4b gives an accurate description but I've honestly not ever seen two projects (even sequels with all the same players involved) ever go the same way twice.
Some projects follow the "normal" route of the director, producer or music supervisor having an overall ideal of at least the aesthetic of the music wanted. Now bear in mind when a gig comes up it really happens a couple of ways. In most feature film situations really one of two things happen: a sort of bidding process is involved (with invited composers essentially pitching their former work and their ideas to an attempt to get the project) or they get the project due to personal or professional contacts and in these cases are often involved very early on in the process.
Composers often lobby to get these films and sometimes they may have standing connections or agreements with particular studios or production companies to have a shot, if not guarantee they do x many projects in a given year. At lot of this lobbying and sceuring of projects has to do with the agents you have as a composer, and their power in the industry is often the reason a composer may get a particular gig.
However these situation really relate to the established score composers - with people trying to get on the ladder, it's a really a case of trying to PR your work, taking smaller projects and hoping someone picks you up. A lot of it is working on much smaller films, even shorts, tv work or animations and hoping that the work gets noticed.
In a lot of cases, the bigger composers carve themselves a niche for a particular type of time that fits their abilities - it's not difficult to see the obvious pools of composers that do the comedies, that the action films, that do the dramas, that the romantic comedies. Because of this, they become a sort of go to for that type of film and get known by the people in the industry for that type of delivery.
It' very rare (IMO) that a score would be written or started based on the script. Sometimes a form, motif or theme may already be conceptualised but that's about it.
in some cases a composer will take a job, way beloe their punching weight for other reasons - they may like the film itself or some of the talent involved (a chance to have fun, do something artistic or work with an artist they admire), or they may take it do get in someones (A director or studios etc.) good books or have a favor on file that they can use for the big projects that may come up later. I've seen a few scores get done for free for these reasons by the really big boys.
Nearly always the composer is working from a at least a working edit of the film, or partial reels. In a lot of cases the score is the very last thing that actually happens before going to the dub stage - in many cases that will be just a few very short weeks before commercial cinema or DVD release.
I have seen some animations scores (in part) from story boards but these would be very late stage ones which have timing references and the real thing isn't available because it just hasn't been finished yet, but it will match the timings and story board as they are incredibly particular about these.
I have been on projects where it's all be pretty straight forward and the film is totally completed and the score just has to be spotted, composed, orchestrated, recorded (and produced), engineered the mixed, the edited (music edited that is) then approved and sent to the dub stage.
But I've also been on projects where we're given a basic edit of the film, and we've had to spot, score, record mix and deliver in 5 days, without anything as a starting base. Everyone packs in tot a studio and you don't leave until it's done - It's just about muscail collaboration with everyone chipping, but with this one it took a lot of talented people from different disciplines all helping out. You don't sleep, you barely eat and you better ing hope that you all deliver. Thankfully we did and as we printed the mixes they were immediately sent to the dub stage for master printing. Even an hours delay at a dub stage can cost tens of thousands of dollars so we were having to print and send the next as they finished each one etc.
Also, sometimes a few themes are written for a project and the unused ones get used for another project. Some scores are rehashes of previous scores and even composers get known for that sound which becomes their signature.
Simply put the process is more a body of work and expertise, combined with natural musical and learned technical ability. Even then, if you off the wrong person, you'll never work again. |
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