heh playing to 50 000 ppl in Zagreb this June:eyes:
E2EK1EL
Open letter to Bon Jovi from iLounge
Hi John,
When my wife—a huge and long-time Bon Jovi fan—asked me to spend over $300 for two floor seat tickets to your Valentine’s Day show in Toronto, there were two reasons that I said yes. First, I really love my wife, and would do almost anything for her. Second, I looked through my iTunes collection and realized that there were more good Bon Jovi songs inside than there were for most of the musicians I “love.” Once my wife assured me that your concerts focus mostly on the songs I liked, I plunked down the cash for the seats, and spent the next four months watching my wife smile every time we discussed Valentine’s Day.
To be totally honest with you, the concert was great. We both had a lot of fun, snapped pictures and video clips from the floor, and told our friends and family how much we enjoyed it.
But now you’re putting our happy memories in jeopardy. For whatever reason, you told The Sunday Times Magazine during an interview that “Steve Jobs is personally responsible for killing the music business.” I’m not going to try and tell you all of the ways that you’re deeply, profoundly wrong. Instead, I’m just going to focus on a few of them.
(1) My wife has carried around all of your albums (and many more) on Steve Jobs’ Apple devices since she bought her first iPod years ago. I know from personal experience that she taps into your collection at home, in the car, and on vacations—literally at the drop of a hat, whenever she wants. If she hadn’t, I would have forgotten about your band back in the 1980’s. No CD player or radio station would have changed that, I can guarantee you.
(2) When we got married, her music collection became mine and vice-versa. It’s because of her collection of Bon Jovi music—and her constant access to it on Apple’s devices—that I could look at my iTunes library and realize how many of your songs I liked.
(3) We attended your concert in Toronto a month ago. Photos from that concert were uploaded to Facebook using our iPhones, and from my digital camera using a Mac. And when I was testing the iPad 2, guess what I used as examples to show off how the new version of iMovie can edit videos from digital cameras? Sample concert footage. And it looked pretty great, too.
Jon, you lead the world’s top-earning touring band, which made $146.5 million on its last tour alone. If the music business is being killed, you’re still doing exceptionally well, so it’s hard to understand why you’d be complaining about anything right now. But let me take a guess or two.
In the interview, you seem to be upset that kids no longer buy an entire album based on the cover, and suggest that people would be better off not knowing what it sounds like before they make a purchase. I’m sorry, but that’s just crazy. Yes, Apple lets people buy singles rather than entire albums. It also lets people preview tracks before buying albums, and recently extended those previews to 90 seconds per song. This way, potential customers can be sure they’re getting what they want before hitting the buy button—a good idea because those of us who aren’t making tens of millions of dollars a year don’t want to buy bad songs, or worse yet, entire albums full of junk. Singles and previewing let us pick out the tracks we like, rather than having to pay for filler. And there’s a lot of filler in the music business these days.
Taken on an iPhone 4
During the concert in Toronto, and presumably many others you’ve performed over the years, the audience clearly wanted to hear your hits. Crowd noise dimmed significantly every time you said you were going to play “new stuff,” but the energy level went through the roof whenever a classic track started to play. As an aging rock star—granted, one who puts on a hell of a show—you must hate that each stadium full of people just wants to hear the songs you put out 20 years ago. You surely want to point fingers at the system that distributes your music, the way people consume music these days, other performers, and anything other than the music itself for not catching on. At one point in the concert, you knocked Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, and seemingly Madonna and Justin Timberlake for not being real musicians. As talented as you may be, it’s obvious that you’re angry about popular music for some reason.
You shouldn’t be. If you don’t realize it already, iTunes, the iPod, iPhone, iPad, and Mac have given you a platform that would have been inconceivable when you were a kid. You constantly live in your fans’ pockets, on their computers, and inside their cameras. That attachment leads them, and in some cases their spouses, to keep listening to you, watching you, and paying you for more. The more good music you make, the more Apple has empowered you to make money on it in some way, and to spread the word to others. Like me. Like the friends we reached on Facebook. And so on.
Steve Jobs isn’t the problem here. The music industry is the problem—too many bad songs are the problem. It’s the reason the audience doesn’t roar when you talk about playing a new track or two that were added for a re-release of your greatest hits. If your greatest hits were from the last three years, imagine how much money you’d be making on album sales even beyond your touring.
Speaking just for myself, the next Bon Jovi concert I’ll consider attending now will be one with a completely different set list of tracks that I like as much as the ones you released 20 years ago. All you have to do is start recording them, and I promise that my wife or I will purchase them. So will the rest of your fans. Until that happens, and other musicians start churning out great music by the album rather than the song, the industry’s going to be in trouble. And if it keeps blaming the system rather than itself, it will deserve its fate.
Originally posted by LKD
I want to get iTunes to buy this:
Orko
quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
So up until massive illegal downloading, there were a lot of quality records. After illegal downloading its all mc cookie cutter crap that is guaranteed to sell at least something even though people are stealing.
Don't you see a trend here?
Whereas before labels would take more risk, they dont anymore and only tend to what will most likely sell. And thats partly why its become more and more formulated, the 90% recycled garbage.
Ah Jay, your one sidedness is back...
So, up until record labels started pushing out crap, people actually bought records? And then when they realised they were getting riped off, they decided to start downloading?
Do you see a trend here?
-----------------
Correlation does not equal causation. This argument is completely, chicken and egg, and the real answer lays somewhere in the middle. I just wanted you to see it from the other side.
'Stealing' music isn't right, but let's at least admit the model is was broken.
I just wish more sites would offer FLAC as a format to purchase. For god sakes, the artists produce in WAV, the CD standard was a perfect consumer copy of the studio production, but now we have gone backwards. I don't care what you say about sound quality, I want to hear the same thing that the artist is hearing when they produce a record. 24bit, maybe some ways away (yes, I saw the recent rumours), but I'll take 16it 44Khz anyday.
I still prefer to buy the CD because of this. And, why is it cheaper to buy a CD version of an album, the the WAV version, if it is even offered? On Beatport, racking up those WAV charges is crazy.
This is how broken the system is. It's cheaper to make a record, print labels, press a CD, ship it to the store, and buy it, versus clicking download from a legit source.
-g-
don't expect anything remotely touching lucidity as far as jayx goes.
rabbitjoker
Bad music is also not the cause of the demise of the business business.
Bad music had been made since the beginning of time, however when you actually had to PAY for it - you never heard it because nobody was going to put money into printing CDs and promotions.
People are stealing just as much "bad" modern music (and I debate that conclusion - there is still a lot of great music being put out) as they steal of classic "great" music.
Saying "music is now bad, therefore I steal" (or the reason people steal is because it is bad) is again a cop-out and peope just rationalizing their theft.
If the music was -that- bad, people wouldn't steal it.
nacarter
I think we're all in agreement that Steve Jobs did not kill the music industry and Jon Bon Jovi is a douche for saying as much.
I'll also agree with Jayx that stealing music is wrong - somebody worked hard to make that song and should be compensated for it.
That said, the demise of the music industry far predates the internet. The rise of MTV made aesthetics more important that the substance of songwriting. There were some great bands in the late 70s and early 80s that died overnight because they didn't have the 'right look' for MTV. "Video killed the Radio Star" was quite prophetic.
Once the corporate look took over, and songwriting took a backseat you wind up with the hated phenomemon of an album with 3 good songs, 3 songs that grow on you, and 6 or more that are absolute garbage. If this model of musicmaking hadn't come about, I doubt that the average music listener would have sufficient motivation to download illegally. Few people blame the artist for bad songs on a record. Most of us are savvy enough to understand the influence of corporate pressure on the end product. Illegal downloading isn't a statement against the artist, it's an attempt to stick it to the corporate hacks that ruined the art in the first place. Unfortunately, the suffering only gets passed on to the artist.
Guys like Jon Bon Jovi are complaining because they can't adapt to a new music business model. There are many bands who have adapted and understand that there's as much money to be made through website advertising, merchandising and other ancilliary revenue streams as there is in the production of an album. Sorry Jon, but you actually have to run a business now instead of working for 2 or 3 months of the year and banging groupies.
This of course burns the big 4 distributors (Sony, Warner, EMI, and Universal) because as more bands turn to the web for direct distribution, the harder it is for the distributors to control the market. This is not a bad thing! The distributors (through their puppet organization, the RIAA) do not have the artists best interests in mind. Just remember in 1999 when they tried to strip artists of the their copyright interests through the "work made for hire" nonsense, that would have given artists nothing and everything to the labels and distributors. Seems that the artists' "biggest supporters" are out to rip them off just as much as a kid in his bedroom ripping music from YouTube.
All that is happening with the new music business model is, as mentioned earlier, songs become the marketing material for live performance. This isn't new: it's how the music industry was until the early 1960s. The sky will not fall and there will still be the same number of superstars and starving artists as there's always been.
Euphorica
quote:
Originally posted by rabbitjoker
If the music was -that- bad, people wouldn't steal it.
LOL
no.
You give the general public way too much credit...
Nor do I think downloading ruined the industry.... Did it ruin the porn industry....? etc No.
GGM
quote:
Originally posted by knacker
While I agree that Jon Bon's statement is idiotic and way off base, I find attitudes like these completely naive and scary.
First off, it IS a shame people are missing out on the experience off a full Album. If you can't comprehend this, you're not much of a lover of good music.
Do you not realize that making albums takes more than just the artists? Think of all the great albums in history and look at how many involved not only the musicians, but producers, engineers, studio musicians, sound designers, orchestras, etc
If there is no revenue from the actual recorded music, how do you expect these people to make a living and continue working on albums??
You, like many who use paper thin arguments like this, have a delusional idea that the entire industry is like this when you are really ONLY TALKING ABOUT 2% OF THE ARTISTS OUT THERE. Most are struggling, on the road for 6 - 10 months out of the year JUST to get by.
Sooo ticket prices for live shows has grown.. prices for everything has grown, along with the fact there's a little company called TICKETMASTER (now owned by Live Nation) that takes 50% of the revenue from ticket sales (not to mention the way the gauge people in the re-sale market with Tickets Now etc.).
And oh yeah, they have a contract with at least 75% of the venues in North America, so if you don't want to play by their rules, you're going to have a tough time finding a venue to play AT ALL. These guys are raking in far more $$$ than the artists or record companies.
Not only that, but now because artists HAVE to tour to make ends meet, the competition has skyrocketed, leaving many unable to sell out all their concerts, and thus make a living (remember, a tour takes a heck of a lot more than just the band, you have roadies, sound engineers, tour managers, etc. who ALL have to take a cut of the revenue) And what about older or ill artists who can't tour? Do they not deserve to be compensated for their work?
Oh I know, you'll say "find another revenue stream" but sorry I do NOT want the music I listen to tied to commercials or a product of some sort. The MUSIC - the thing WE all LOVE the most - deserves to have the value - NOT anything else.
Now I'm not defending the record companies - they have made many mistakes - but to put ALL labels and artists into one group, and have this absurd notion they are "sticking it to the MAN" by not buying thier music is so ing aggravating! (as these thiefs often often rationalize thier actions - even though they continue to give thier money to huge corporations in other ways on a daily business)
Truth is, if people don't find value in good recorded music, it will start to disappear (as it already has in popular music)
There are still A LOT of great full Albums being made today - you just got to take a bit of listening time and find them.. but these are getting fewer and fewer by the year because many artist simply can't afford to spend a lot of time writing and recording an album. Its a vicious perpetual cycle, and the only way to help solve it is to SUPPORT the artists you love.
Whoa man I wasn't saying hey lets all go steal music. And my artist bashing wasn't even aimed at the 2%, I'd say it's closer to 0.001% so please leave the struggling artists out of it. Or even the established artists who have no problem with technology. I was purely just referring the rich/established artists that openly bitch about how evil technology is because they lose money but then play it off as if they're saying it because it's some dear sweet heartfilled reason that should concern us all deeply. And maybe reduced money for the record companies does reduce their ability to scout and invest in new talent but I'd say the opportunity technology has presented for people with real talent to get out there is far greater than that damage. C'mon you got possibly the biggest emerging artist right now in Bieber who got discovered on Youtube... My point is that ya technology has changed the deal quite a bit and definitely some in negative ways, but in my opinion the positives far outweigh those said negatives.
Record companies are getting screwed because they're greedy to the point they refuse to innovate and create things such as iTunes themselves so geniuses like Jobs come in and say "hey theres a market for this". For the love of god the guy made computers, gadgets and software but was able to see the obvious need and make a huge profit on something completely outside his conventional industry. Meanwhile record companies specializing in that sit back and cross their fingers hoping technology will die and we can all go back 20 years into the past.
If what you say about Ticketmaster is true then you know what? Someone else will come along with a better platform just as Jobs did and greedy company problem #2 = solved. Many sports organisations are opting to use smaller companies that charge less instead of Ticketmaster as well as promoters and venues so that's proof it's already happening. Even taking inflation into account there's still tons more money to be made doing live shows than there was 20-30 years ago so regardless of people taking cuts my point still stands, oncert revenue can replace album sale revenue if they want to put in the effort.
E2EK1EL
quote:
Originally posted by geroin
First time hearing this song ... put me in that seat dude.
She sounds like Steve Urkel w/ his nuts kicked in. Kids really listen to this stuff?
