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The footy discussion thread (pg. 26)
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| SYSTEM-J |
| Barca have taken tika taka a little too far this season. Guardiola has seemed determined to play a team exclusively comprised of passing midfielders - he's gone 3-4-3 and put Fabregas up front and Mascherano at the back. They've also missed Villa and suffered from Pedro's poor form, so they rely a little too much on Messi for the goals. He has 63, but the next highest scorer is Fabregas, way back on 15. When they won the treble, Messi, Eto'o and Henry all contributed 30+ goals each and last season Pedro and Villa both notched up 20+. Messi may be almost impossible to stop, but if you keep him quiet Barca are lacking in deadly players at the moment. Fabregas and Sanchez missed so many chances against Chelsea, particularly in the first leg. You could never imagine Eto'o missing those chances, and if Barca had taken an away goal back to the Nou Camp, they'd be in the final now. |
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| Chimney |
| Has Guardiola's decision whether he'd stop training Barcelona or not, been announced? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| There'll be a press conference at 11 (GMT), apparently. |
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| EarnYourKeep |
Pep is out, Tito Vilanova is the new manager
I think this is a much better final, chelsea and bayern going at it.
I'm a barca fan at heart but system-j is on point with his analysis. I'd also hate to add this but Cesc kinda felt like he brought his curse with him back home. Messi crossbars and posts (CR7 and Kaka pk getting stopped) So many chances that could have put barca in the final yet it just wasn't to be
I was confident with pedro, villa, messi this season not so much. Still in my mind the most capable midfield in the game and that is the heart of barca's game and is also the reason for much of messi's success. |
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| Taipan |
| As a Chelsea fan, Pep would be a terrible fit for the club. Aside from my personal opinion that the guy is super over rated, his style of football is the complete opposite of the blues. If Chelsea wanted to change to attractive attacking football, they should have stayed with AVB (I rather liked the guy). Obviously Morinho would be the best choice, but hes a total long shot. Realistically I would say Rafa Benitez might be the best option. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
If anything, Guardiola is under-rated. Everyone seems to think it's impossible to lose with Barca, but they completely ignore the incredibly bold and successful tactical changes Pep frequently deployed in big games, especially against Real Madrid. I still remember in 2010 when he went 4-4-2 in the Clasico and they won 2-0 at the Bernabau. Barcelona finished 3rd in the league the season before he took over. After a year in charge he'd won six trophies. Anyone who thinks Barcelona manage themselves is a moron, quite frankly.
And I think AVB was a manager. He systematically alienated all his senior players, his "project" showed no signs of progress throughout his time (his team were playing considerably worse 8 months after he started than when he first took charge) and his team couldn't hold a lead if their lives depended on it. The Chelsea of old were one of the toughest teams around - if they went 1-0 up they usually won the game. AVB's Chelsea habitually went 1-0 up and then lost the game. Apart from the 3-0 against Valencia and the 1-0 against Man City, he didn't show any signs of success at Chelsea. If Abramovich wanted to rebuild the side, he should have kept Carlo Ancelotti, an experienced manager who had stayed at AC Milan for almost 8 years and had rebuilt the team. AVB had one full season in charge at Porto and there was no evidence whatsoever that he knew how to rebuild a side. It's one thing to take over a team and make them successful in the short term, but another thing entirely to guide a squad through a transitional phase and build something new. Sir Alex Ferguson is the undisputed master of this, AVB is a complete novice. |
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| Taipan |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
If anything, Guardiola is under-rated. Everyone seems to think it's impossible to lose with Barca, but they completely ignore the incredibly bold and successful tactical changes Pep frequently deployed in big games, especially against Real Madrid. I still remember in 2010 when he went 4-4-2 in the Clasico and they won 2-0 at the Bernabau. Barcelona finished 3rd in the league the season before he took over. After a year in charge he'd won six trophies. Anyone who thinks Barcelona manage themselves is a moron, quite frankly.
And I think AVB was a manager. He systematically alienated all his senior players, his "project" showed no signs of progress throughout his time (his team were playing considerably worse 8 months after he started than when he first took charge) and his team couldn't hold a lead if their lives depended on it. The Chelsea of old were one of the toughest teams around - if they went 1-0 up they usually won the game. AVB's Chelsea habitually went 1-0 up and then lost the game. Apart from the 3-0 against Valencia and the 1-0 against Man City, he didn't show any signs of success at Chelsea. If Abramovich wanted to rebuild the side, he should have kept Carlo Ancelotti, an experienced manager who had stayed at AC Milan for almost 8 years and had rebuilt the team. AVB had one full season in charge at Porto and there was no evidence whatsoever that he knew how to rebuild a side. It's one thing to take over a team and make them successful in the short term, but another thing entirely to guide a squad through a transitional phase and build something new. Sir Alex Ferguson is the undisputed master of this, AVB is a complete novice. |
You can't say AVB was a manager and Ancelotti was a good manager. It's more that Ancelotti was a better fit for Chelsea and AVB was a poor fit for Chelsea. The same way Pep will be a poor fit for chelsea. Ancelotti is a defensive coach that preserves a 1-0 lead, just like how the chelsea of old used to play. AVB is promotes an attacking style of football, which is completely the opposite of how the players are used to playing. Ancelotti was successful for the same reason Di Matteo is successful, because they both took a backseat role and let the players take charge. AVB tried to take control and it went to . My main point being is that AVB tried to take defensive players and change their style of football, just like what Pep would do. And it wont work until you change the players - which is why AVB tried to phase out the older guys. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Taipan
Ancelotti is a defensive coach that preserves a 1-0 lead, just like how the chelsea of old used to play. |
When Chelsea won the title under Ancelotti, they broke the record for the number of goals scored in a Premiership season. They were hammering teams 7-1 and 8-0 almost every weekend. Ancelotti's Chelsea scored considerably more goals than AVB's Chelsea.
Your opinions seem entirely based on cliché and not from actually paying attention. And I wouldn't worry about Pep being a bad fit, because there's no way in hell he'd ever go to Chelsea anyway. |
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| Taipan |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
When Chelsea won the title under Ancelotti, they broke the record for the number of goals scored in a Premiership season. They were hammering teams 7-1 and 8-0 almost every weekend. Ancelotti's Chelsea scored considerably more goals than AVB's Chelsea.
Your opinions seem entirely based on cliché and not from actually paying attention. And I wouldn't worry about Pep being a bad fit, because there's no way in hell he'd ever go to Chelsea anyway. |
System J, I have followed your posts in this forum and that is why I am very wary of getting into an argument with you, however, I must defend my opinions.
1) Chelsea were not hammering teams 7-1 and 8-0 almost every weekend. It was more like a 3-4 goal differential. This does not take away from your point as 3-4 goals is still huge.
2) When a team is 2-0 up, it is very easy to capitalize on that scoreline and go crazy.
3) I would very much worry about Pep being a bad fit since the guy is so set in his "philosophy" when a good coach should be able to adapt to whatever team he is managing.
4) There is a huge chance he goes to Chelsea (unfortunately) considering the timing of his departure and the influence of his treasure chest of a transfer budget and sizable salary.
5) off calling my opinion cliche. If anything jumping on the barca bandwagon is cliche. . |
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| denys envy |
| quote: | Originally posted by tanta
Ironic for Mourinho to say that, as he never have won the competition properly himself |
won it proper with Porto, if you ask me. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Taipan
System J, I have followed your posts in this forum and that is why I am very wary of getting into an argument with you, however, I must defend my opinions.
1) Chelsea were not hammering teams 7-1 and 8-0 almost every weekend. It was more like a 3-4 goal differential. This does not take away from your point as 3-4 goals is still huge.
2) When a team is 2-0 up, it is very easy to capitalize on that scoreline and go crazy.
3) I would very much worry about Pep being a bad fit since the guy is so set in his "philosophy" when a good coach should be able to adapt to whatever team he is managing.
4) There is a huge chance he goes to Chelsea (unfortunately) considering the timing of his departure and the influence of his treasure chest of a transfer budget and sizable salary.
5) off calling my opinion cliche. If anything jumping on the barca bandwagon is cliche. . |
In that season they recorded the following heavy scorelines: 5-0, 5-0, 7-2, 7-1, 7-0 and 8-0, scoring a total of 103 goals. They broke records for most goals in the club's history, most goals in a season, best goal difference and became the first side to score 7 or more goals four times in one season. They also started the following season by winning 6-0 twice.
Carlo Ancelotti didn't just turn Chelsea into an attacking side, he turned them into arguably the most attacking side in the history of English football. Chelsea didn't want to change to an attacking style of football, because they already were playing ultra-attacking football. The sacking of Ancelotti and the hiring of AVB was nonsensical and idiotic in the extreme, but AVB did not make Chelsea more attacking, nor did he even try to.
And Guardiola is just not going to Chelsea. It hasn't happening. He's said so himself:
| quote: | "I'm not interested in coaching now. There are more things than football.
"I have never met with Roman Abramovich nor any Chelsea representative, I have always respected this club.
"I will rest and maybe one day I will say, now let's train. Maybe not. Let's see where life takes me. My desire is to do other things.
"I don't have anything to prove. I'm not interested in proving myself abroad and will go away from football at the moment. I have nothing left and need to recharge my batteries." |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17867243
The Barcelona president already tried to keep him at the club by offering unlimited funds to rebuild the squad, and Guardiola still left. He's not going to Chelsea just for the money. It isn't happening.
I will continue to call your opinions clichéd because they have nothing to do with the facts and everything to do with popular misconceptions: Chelsea are defensive, Barcelona are easy to manage, Guardiola would be attracted by infinite transfer funds/salary. You quite simply aren't paying enough attention. |
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