Have the protesters made any specific demands or are they still just running around complaining?
Building awareness about a huge wealth gap is great and all, but do they have any suggestions on what to do?
ChemEnhanced
quote:
Originally posted by Lews
Have the protesters made any specific demands or are they still just running around complaining?
Building awareness about a huge wealth gap is great and all, but do they have any suggestions on what to do?
Why do they think they are building awareness about a huge wealth gap.....no there is a huge gap....there always has been and there always will be. You would have to be living under a rock to not know this.
Adam420
quote:
Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
Why do they think they are building awareness about a huge wealth gap.....no there is a huge gap....there always has been and there always will be. You would have to be living under a rock to not know this.
...
Obviously the concept of a wealth gap is not unfamiliar to these people. It's the fact that the gap has gotten wider and wider in the last (I would say) decade that they are angry about.
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by Lews
Have the protesters made any specific demands or are they still just running around complaining?
Building awareness about a huge wealth gap is great and all, but do they have any suggestions on what to do?
the wealth gap we have is a problem, but the major issue is simple:
financial institutions basically preyed on people's consumerist aspirations, which they used to create unsound short term investments meant to generate enormous profits for a small group of people, while socializing their enormous risk among everyone else. because these institutions essentially own our government and politicians, they managed to get away with this, while everyone else has been left by the wayside. one could also argue there are some other industries that operate somewhat similarly (pharmaceuticals, food, energy, etc) (that is, by creating demand for things people don't need, then trying to make a ton of money off of it with no consideration given to global consequence), but this movement confronts the financial sector.
the movement is avoiding making specific demands at this point for a few reasons. first of all, the real revolutionary potential of the movement is direct democracy powered by social media and technology. it's kind of impossible for a leaderless organization to create specific demadns this early on. the goal is solidarity, discussion, and consensus. because of this, the process will undoubtedly take a long time. first you need to build solidarity and awareness, which raises discussion in a democratic environment outside of the media talking-heads feedback loop, and then eventually consensus is requested for specific actions and demands.
but i think you will see eventually that demands that come from political action associated with this movement (not from the occupation itself, which is not a political body), will center around regulation of the financial industry, bailouts for ordinary people as well as banks, fair tax laws, and campaign financing and lobby reform.
Halcyon+On+On
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
the major issue is simple
You only have one warning left.
OrangestO
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Worth watching for sure.
*thumbs up*
ChemEnhanced
quote:
Originally posted by Adam420
...
Obviously the concept of a wealth gap is not unfamiliar to these people. It's the fact that the gap has gotten wider and wider in the last (I would say) decade that they are angry about.
The gap is almost always getting wider. When you have money its easier to make more money.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
the wealth gap we have is a problem, but the major issue is simple:
something is certainly simple that’s for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
financial institutions basically preyed on people's consumerist aspirations, which they used to create unsound short term investments meant to generate enormous profits for a small group of people, while socializing their enormous risk among everyone else.
yeah, borrowers shouldn’t have to take any responsibility for their poor choices at all! It was all the evil lenders. The risks haven’t been “socialised”; bailout money et al are loans, not gifts. Most of that money has been paid back too, and the fed delivered a record profit to the US treasury. And then there’s the 100+ financial institutions that collapsed. Who socialised their risk?
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
because these institutions essentially own our government and politicians, they managed to get away with this, while everyone else has been left by the wayside.
no doubt the banking lobby is extraordinarily powerful, but that had little to do with the choices the government made. Financial services are special by virtue of their integration at essentially every level of society. That’s why they managed to “get away with it”. let’s be serious here and acknowledge that the proponents of the bailouts were government, not the banks (many banks didn’t want to take money from the govt and were forced to). Certainly nobody was lobbying the government to save their institution (that I am aware of).
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
one could also argue there are some other industries that operate somewhat similarly (pharmaceuticals, food, energy, etc) (that is, by creating demand for things people don't need, then trying to make a ton of money off of it with no consideration given to global consequence), but this movement confronts the financial sector.
I know, right? Who needs food, medicine and electricity!
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
the movement is avoiding making specific demands at this point for a few reasons.
because they’re clueless hacks that wouldn’t understand the GFC if their life depended on it?
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
bailouts for ordinary people as well as banks
why bailout people that have no hope of paying the money back?
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
campaign financing and lobby reform.
that ship has sailed. Take the fight to the supreme court.
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
yeah, borrowers shouldn’t have to take any responsibility for their poor choices at all! It was all the evil lenders. The risks haven’t been “socialised”; bailout money et al are loans, not gifts. Most of that money has been paid back too, and the fed delivered a record profit to the US treasury. And then there’s the 100+ financial institutions that collapsed. Who socialised their risk?
I didn't say that. I certainly think anyone who would buy a house without having the right financial situation is an idiot and partly to blame. Greed and consumerism exists at every level, and I think it's a problem, but also human nature, and I think there ought to be checks against human nature when it interferes with the larger functioning of society... that's pretty basic. But it's not the borrower's job approve the loans, which should be one of the checks. In the case of our recent financial crisis, these were not checked, because the risk was passed on and ultimately the only people who were at risk were the people who weren't at the top. Sure those institutions collapsed, but not before a small group of people made off with a great deal of the money.
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I know, right? Who needs food, medicine and electricity!
better said - who needs fast food, brand name drugs that doctors are retained to promote occasionally for conditions that companies hire people to invent, and SUVs.
Vector A
Eh, I wouldn't hang my hat on the "invented conditions" idea. I think what happens is that real problems are being addressed, but meds may not be the proper treatment as often as thought.
