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NDAA (pg. 9)
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View this Thread in Original format
| PivotTechno |
How did this discussion manage to segue from the original subject (that being the NDAA) to the TSA? We're no longer talking airports here, but the entire nation.
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Right. So airports, border crossings, etc. should all employ character detectors so they can check everyone's character when they arrive. |
edit: Ah, got it. This is srussell's way of slinking out of that little brown corner he's backed himself into. |
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| Zharen |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Character profiling, imo. |
J00F man J00F |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zharen
J00F man J00F |
Totally. |
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| FuzzQi |
| quote: | Originally posted by netroM
>not realizing this power will be abused in the future to silence people with ideas/ideals other than what the government wants them to have.
:stongue: @ thinking this has anything to do with terrorism/national security
I do hope I get proven wrong though :) |
mfw greentext
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| TranceArmstrong |
| Land of the safe and home of the safe. I look forward to the coming loose interpretations of what "domestic terrorism" might come to mean. |
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| saluyamo |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
You're really comparing someone who killed 32 people, 168 people, and 13 people, respectively in 3 isolated incidents perpetrated by individuals to the thoroughly planned murder of almost 3,000 by a highly organized network of terrorists? A network which has time and again made it obvious that their main purpose is to kill Americans.
Yeah, same thing. |
But 2 of those acts were very planned out. |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by saluyamo
But 2 of those acts were very planned out. |
Right, but they were planned by individuals. Not a well-organized and thoroughly trained terrorist network who happen to be almost exclusively Muslim. Regardless, I don't want to argue about this anymore. I think a minor inconvenience for certain people (and all Muslims are not harassed due to their appearance) is worth the safety, or even perceived safety, of society as a whole.
This is all irrelevant to the topic of the thread though. I don't think the government should be able to hold anyone without charges indefinitely. This is not a minor inconvenience, and is actually violating civil rights. |
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| RahulJ |
| Did you know there is a term called "Islamophobia"?!! Islamophobia describes prejudice against, hatred or irrational fear of Islam or Muslims! |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Well you're certainly more than welcome to suggest alternatives in addition to metal detectors, x-rays, etc.
Eddie alluded to some before. I'm interested to hear what it is. I'd assume something to do with reading body language. People who are about to commit a terrorist act might be nervous or display other outwardly noticeable body language.
I agree that there probably are much more effective means of security, but I disagree with the view that racial profiling is fundamentally wrong. |
I believe he was alluding to techniques used by places such as airports in Israel. Those airports would, arguably, be potentially the most dangerous in the world, considering the desire of many terrorist networks in the area to wipe Israel off the map. Yet, Israeli airports take pride in getting their passengers from their car, to the boarding gate in 30 minutes or less, and have not had a serious incident in X number of years.
I won't do the research for you, but you can look up Israeli airport security methods and educate yourself a little. |
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| PivotTechno |
Actually, Israeli airports do indeed use ethnic (can't stand that word, 'race', unless it's referring to cars, bikes or wife carrying) as well as background and behavioural profiling, for their three international airports. As mentioned, ethnic profiling has many critics, who cite the probability that non-Muslim extremists such as Richard Reid and Colleen LaRose would have most likely made it through the Israeli process due to a perceived low risk, ironically, because of their skin colour.
The Israeli screening begins from the point of ticket purchase and continues through to vehicle checks upon entering airport grounds. Baggage search areas are blast proof, and screeners are also trained to immediately place any suspect baggage into a blast-proof container. Their security are also required to have a minimum of a college education.
Contrast this with the United States, which has over 160 international airports. They stupidly favour expensive, flashy technology like those lovely, irradiating, full-body scanners, invasive pat-downs and terminal evacuation in the case of suspect luggage, which creates naught but unnecessarily long waits, mass aggravation, missed flights and building-wide panic if any package needs to go beyond routine inspection.
TSA hiring standards require no more than a high school or GED diploma, which leads to drooling, badge-toting, 100% certified can't-for-a-moment-think-outside-the-box dullards demanding 95 year-old grannies remove their Depends because, well, who knows what the 105 lb, lukemia-ridden coot might be hiding in there?*
Putting Israeli and U.S. airport security methods up to side by side scrutiny is like comparing apples to radial tires - sure, they both have a roundness to them, but beyond that...and besides, were the U.S. to even attempt to adopt Israeli screening methods, the DOT would go up before the first new hire made it to their post.
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Another problem is that when you speak against racial profiling, I think you're actually arguing that Muslims (or whatever race) should be afforded more rights than everyone else. |
Why do you keep making stuff like this up, and more importantly, from which dusty crook of your mind do you attain these fantastical notions?
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
This is all irrelevant to the topic of the thread though. I don't think the government should be able to hold anyone without charges indefinitely. This is not a minor inconvenience, and is actually violating civil rights. |
Credit for backpedaling in the right direction. Still doesn't negate the remainder of your ignorance. There are plenty of articles out there that do a great job of explaining why ethnic/racial/skin-colour profiling causes more harm than it does good - as has been suggested, you might want to read a few of them before you go spouting off with further, unsubstantiated opinion.
(*Florida, go figure) |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
Why do you keep making stuff like this up, and more importantly, from which dusty crook of your mind do you attain these fantastical notions?
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It's not a very hard concept to grasp. What race of people is most likely to be targeted in racial profiling when passing security for mass transit? Muslims. So, any time a Muslim person is stopped by security, they (or people like you) will claim it is racial profiling. They could have been selected completely at random, yet because there is a social stigma attached to being Muslim in an airport in this country, the automatic thought is that they were selected solely because they fit the profile. Now, the only way around this would be not to detain any Muslim people, if for no other reason than to avoid the people like you claiming that any time an Arab person is ever detained for any reason, that it must be institutionalized racial profiling.
You honestly think that if searches were conducted completely at random, if a Muslim person happened to be selected, that they wouldn't claim prejudice?
The only way to avoid this would be to not ever detain anybody for any reason, or to never detain any Arab person for any reason. If it's the latter, this is asking for more rights than the average citizen.
In all honesty, you're tiresome to argue with because 90% of what you're saying are completely useless ad hominem attacks. "You're ignorant, I'm right," "You're making stuff up, I'm right," "you've never been harassed for your race, I must be right." I don't give a how much experience you have with racial prejudice. If I recall correctly, you're not even Arab. So going by your logic, every black person in the states over the age of 40 knows exactly what it's like to be an Arab.
I wonder what people would remember on September 11th every year if the Arab hijackers had their God given civil liberties violated in such a horrific practice. |
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| PivotTechno |
It's one thing to say that people of certain ethnicities might feel they're being unfairly targeted at airport security because of their skin colour - this possiblity most definitely exists.
But that isn't what you said.
You surmised that my speaking against ethnic profiling implies that I'm somehow demaninding more rights for brown people, and this is quite simply not the case. I think I (as well as several others in this thread) have sufficiently established why ethnic profiling is an inherently flawed means of detecting terrorist threats, none of which even hints at the notion that I'm asking for preferential treatment at the airport. Your reasoning is amiss, plain and simple, such as when you make black/white (nyuk-nyuk) statements like this:
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
The only way to avoid this would be to not ever detain anybody for any reason, or to never detain any Arab person for any reason. If it's the latter, this is asking for more rights than the average citizen. |
There is such a thing as middle ground, and a majority of people tend to gain benefit when a proximity close to it is found. This may be witnessed in many long-entrenched U.S. government systems, many of which will be placed in jeopardy with the implementation of the new version of the NDAA.
But you are right on one count; my flip name calling isn't helping you to see my vantage any more clearly, and for that, I apologise. Chalk it up to a combination of 'net over-familiarity and subject matter that strikes a rather deep chord on a very personal level. It took me a long time to understand the roots of others' ignorance in regard to skin colour; how someone could possibly have bias against me purely due to the fact that my body carries more melanin than theirs. I suppose I'm just part of the camp that hopes humankind will eventually evolve beyond such superficial means of evaluating one another. Call me selfish for feeling this way. ;) |
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