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Ableton 9 (pg. 5)
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View this Thread in Original format
| Fledz |
I went from Live 8 standard to Live 8 Suite, boxed copy, with free Live 9 Suite when it's out and free Max 4 Live for an entire....drum roll...
USD $232 :stongue:
I got in literally 2 hours after they announced it, so paid for it all before Ableton noticed the website error and fixed it. Now I have literally everything, including M4L which I planned to get and it cost me barely over 200 bucks. Winrar :D |
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| itsamemario |
| quote: | Originally posted by wayfinder
it's not easy being green :)
phasing stuff out completely only really happens with very clean waveforms, like the tail of a kick or a pure square |
Ah, maybe that's why trance dj's seem to be so anti kick-phasing? In techno, and in dirtier sounding house, I find the effect to be very pleasing and I know there are those that agree with me. Sounds good with two dirty kicks, but awful with clean trance kicks?  |
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| wayfinder |
i don't know :) i thought about this some more and i think what i wrote wasn't completely right... i'm looking at it from the ground up now:
waves cancel each other out when the pressure in one wave equals that in the other, except in the other direction. if you have a sample value of +100 in one track and -100 in the other, you'll get a 0 - silence. if track 2 is a perfect inversion of track 1, you get only such moments and they cancel each other out completely ("standing wave").
every phase shift has an associated frequency in that its length can be seen as the cycle time of a sound.
cycle times are the reciprocals of frequencies, so for a frequency of 100Hz (100*1/s), you have a cycle time of 1/100s, or 10ms.
if you look at a sine wave, the peaks are mirror images of the troughs! so when you play the sine on both tracks and shift one track by half the cycle time of your frequency (why half? a full cycle is one peak, one trough), bam - you're cancelling :) a phase shift of 5ms will therefore cancel the sound completely when you're dealing with a 100Hz sine wave.
so the prerequisites for cancelling are: phase shift of approximately 1/freq of your sound, and a sound with approximately mirrored peaks and troughs (which to be fair doesn't have to be clean! - a sine, a triangle and a square qualify, a saw doesn't)
a normal bassdrum has a tail of a fairly constant sine at 40-70Hz, let's say I've got mine at 55Hz (A1). so to cancel out that bassdrum's tail, It would take a phase shift of 1s/55 * 1/2, about 9.1ms
Or looking at it the other way around, my plugin causes a latency of 12ms, that means it can cancel out at a freqency of 41,666...Hz – or at any "harmonic and a half" of that frequency (halved uneven integer multiples of the cycle time: 1/2, 3/2, 5/2 etc.)
this will not change depending on whether your kickdrum is clean or not, or whether other stuff is playing over it. phase shift with a fixed length will only ever be able to cancel out one frequency (and its harmonics and a half), and if you have that freq playing something with roughly mirrored peaks and troughs, you gon' get cancel. |
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| itsamemario |
| So trance dj's are just being pants, in other words? |
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| wayfinder |
| technically underpants, yeah |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by wayfinder
i don't know :) i thought about this some more and i think what i wrote wasn't completely right... i'm looking at it from the ground up now:
waves cancel each other out when the pressure in one wave equals that in the other, except in the other direction. if you have a sample value of +100 in one track and -100 in the other, you'll get a 0 - silence. if track 2 is a perfect inversion of track 1, you get only such moments and they cancel each other out completely ("standing wave").
every phase shift has an associated frequency in that its length can be seen as the cycle time of a sound.
cycle times are the reciprocals of frequencies, so for a frequency of 100Hz (100*1/s), you have a cycle time of 1/100s, or 10ms.
if you look at a sine wave, the peaks are mirror images of the troughs! so when you play the sine on both tracks and shift one track by half the cycle time of your frequency (why half? a full cycle is one peak, one trough), bam - you're cancelling :) a phase shift of 5ms will therefore cancel the sound completely when you're dealing with a 100Hz sine wave.
so the prerequisites for cancelling are: phase shift of approximately 1/freq of your sound, and a sound with approximately mirrored peaks and troughs (which to be fair doesn't have to be clean! - a sine, a triangle and a square qualify, a saw doesn't)
a normal bassdrum has a tail of a fairly constant sine at 40-70Hz, let's say I've got mine at 55Hz (A1). so to cancel out that bassdrum's tail, It would take a phase shift of 1s/55 * 1/2, about 9.1ms
Or looking at it the other way around, my plugin causes a latency of 12ms, that means it can cancel out at a freqency of 41,666...Hz – or at any "harmonic and a half" of that frequency (halved uneven integer multiples of the cycle time: 1/2, 3/2, 5/2 etc.)
this will not change depending on whether your kickdrum is clean or not, or whether other stuff is playing over it. phase shift with a fixed length will only ever be able to cancel out one frequency (and its harmonics and a half), and if you have that freq playing something with roughly mirrored peaks and troughs, you gon' get cancel. |
what he said ^^ |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
Oh, just noticed....if i upgrade to Live 8 suite now for €164 i will get Live 9 suite for free!
If i upgrade from 8 to 9, just standard, that costs me €129
probably a sneaky way to get you locked in to buying the "suite" version from then on ?? |
Looks like this deal has changed for me, instead of saying €164 to upgrade Live 8 suite its now saying €239!! should have hit the button the other day when i saw it :whip: |
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| Anakratis |
| Yeah WTF, it's now $299 for me to upgrade to Suite 8 :( |
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| itsamemario |
| I wonder if people would take FL more seriously if they made the GUI more gray and tripled the price. |
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| jayxthekoolest |
| quote: | Originally posted by itsamemario
I wonder if people would take FL more seriously if they made the GUI more gray and tripled the price. |
yes, and if it didn't used to be called fruity loops. |
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| itsamemario |
| quote: | Originally posted by jayxthekoolest
yes, and if it didn't used to be called fruity loops. |
Yeah, because Logic is such a great name. Everybody knows logic and music should go hand in hand. And what about Cakewalk? Or the enigma that is Able-ton. Ab-leton? Live! GarageBand, Mixcraft, Rosegarden.
Give me some fruity loops to play with, over a handful of pro tools, any day of the week. :gsmile: |
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| wayfinder |
Look how they're all switching to Studio One! :)
I think I read that Ableton is a play on "simpleton" |
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