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Psyshell - 4am in Healesville [Forest Darkpsy for Forest Elves] (pg. 3)
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| Bierheld |
You're being an now.
I'm not a technohead, in fact I think much of today's techno output is equally bland and unsatisfying.
I didn't say all of the tracks were bad and I also didn't say anything about the actual existence of the term darkpsy. I'm sure it exists in some peoples heads, I just said it was nonsense and I don't care much for it.
All these implications stem from you being evasive and not wanting to deal with criticism, shaking it all off by means of ad hominems.
I don't dislike you and I don't want to insult you for the sake of it, although I don't care much for packing my words in flowers just to avoid offending someone on an internet forum. It's up to you to react maturely to keep it from escalating, which you repeatedly fail at.
I'd just like to see you reflect on your music choice as we all have to do, that way you can grow so that you'll be able to submit something really worth listening to in the future. I listen to these mixes because I want to hear good music, especially in areas and genres I don't usually look for myself.
If you don't want to then that's that, but you can't blame me for trying. |
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| Psyshell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bierheld
I'm not a technohead, in fact I think much of today's techno output is equally bland and unsatisfying.
I didn't say all of the tracks were bad and I also didn't say anything about the actual existence of the term darkpsy. I'm sure it exists in some peoples heads, I just said it was nonsense and I don't care much for it.
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This part of your post at least is reasonable. I've never seen you before so just assumed you were a techno snob, fair enough if I was wrong. It's fine if you want to debate whether darkpsy exists, but not in my thread please. Take it to music discussion instead.
As for the whole "I have you figured out, you're wrong I'm right" thing. No, I reserve the right to decide what's actual criticism and or just plain bull and I also don't care what words you use to describe what I mean either.
I mean seriously, any post that essentially has the logic of "I don't like any of the selected tracks... but... oh and your dj mix sucks" is just worthless. This isn't a music review section, and if you don't like darkpsy or don't like any of the psy artists included within (since apparently darkpsy doesn't exist :haha:) then please bugger off. Maybe I'll make a set of music you like next time, if not then that's your problem not mine. Your post achieves nothing.
| quote: | Originally posted by Bierheld
I'd just like to see you reflect on your music choice as we all have to do, that way you can grow so that you'll be able to submit something really worth listening to in the future. I listen to these mixes because I want to hear good music, especially in areas and genres I don't usually look for myself.
If you don't want to then that's that, but you can't blame me for trying. |
No, but I can blame you for making dumb posts and hiding your underlying goals. If you'd like to suggest a genre for the next mix then go ahead. I don't generally take suggestions for that sortof thing though so 99% chance I'll just ignore it. Writing "Didn't like, should've played dark ambient or something else good" would've been fine, that's damn well not what you posted though. If you want more ambient music djs or *anything but darkpsy* djs then go ahead and ask or do whatever's reasonable, but being annoying is not the right way to do it. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psyshell
I've never seen you before so just assumed you were a techno snob, fair enough if I was wrong. |
You ing idiot. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psyshell
No, but I can blame you for making dumb posts and hiding your underlying goals. |
He didn't do that and you're just creating faults out of thin air to discredit bierheld's and ziptnf's comments. |
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| ziptnf |
So, let's list facts:
- Darkarbiter changes his name to InnerReflection and spends time arguing with c0r members.
- InnerReflection can't handle the backlash of criticism so he creates a new username, Psyshell.
- Psyshell posts a mix in DJ Promo, after several years of creating one. The previous mixes were mostly goa trance, with one ridiculously feeble attempt at full-on.
- Psyshell requests that the most active psytrance DJ on the forum, myself, refrain from listening because he thought that somehow my joke that "I read his website and it was obviously that he was a foggot" was a personal attack.
- Stu tells him that's retarded and asks me to review his mix.
- I give a completely constructive review, with cue points where he had a bad transition, and comments on how to further improve flow and track selection.
- Psyshell responds by telling myself and Bierheld that we clearly just don't know forest psy, which is ridiculous, considering I have heard Magadansky play a better set of the same style.
- Psyshell also continues to waste time clarifying and rehashing over what the definition of forest psy is, and how since we don't love it, that we are obviously unqualified to give criticism. He also continues to wave off comments on poor transitions with babble about the proper frequencies to use when the problem was actually phrasing and programming.
- Bierheld and I point out to Psyshell that forest psytrance is somewhat of a ridiculous genre to defend, considering it's halfway between twilight/night full-on and darkpsy, and that his mix lacked energy, direction, and purpose.
- Psyshell continues to stupidly defend himself and his mix by telling us that the music was good, and that we are clearly incorrect because our opinions don't matter and we are dumb.
This discussion is over for me. Psyshell, your mix showed that your supposedly high standards in psytrance were actually extremely weak selections of aimless forest psy tracks. Your mix had no imagination or purpose, and for all the time you have spent arguing with guys like me who actually gave an effort to help you out, you could have spent that time listening to other DJ's and gaining perspective. So all the effort that I gave in writing a review for your mix was lost because you wanted to start a new thread with a more positive vibe, even though we all called you out on your bull and told you to quit ing around. Your attitude ing sucks.
If you can't handle criticism to the point where you're willing to change, then don't bother posting again. Stick to your "darkpsy forums" where everyone sucks each others dick and talks about how great it is to listen to boring ass forest psy. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Your attitude ing sucks. |
Precisely this.
Anyone on this forum should be welcoming feedback and musical discussion on the mixes they post. That's the whole god damn point.
Oh, but not Dark Arbiter :rolleyes: |
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| Adam420 |
| I actually love this mix. I think it's ing awesome. Good job man:toocool: |
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| Psyshell |
Quote with comments
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
So, let's list facts:
- Darkarbiter changes his name to InnerReflection and spends time arguing with c0r members.
Rumoured to be correct
- InnerReflection can't handle the backlash of criticism so he creates a new username, Psyshell.
Inner reflection may have almost certainly changed his username due to posting about drugs/illegal things constantly. Probably had nothing to do with personal attacks. Psyshell is not stupid enough to think that that sortof change would result in regular posters not knowing who someone is.
- Psyshell posts a mix in DJ Promo, after several years of creating one. The previous mixes were mostly goa trance, with one ridiculously feeble attempt at full-on.
The full on mix was half assed yes, but seriously, what more is there to say about it apart from hopefully future ones will be better?
- Psyshell requests that the most active psytrance DJ on the forum, myself, refrain from listening because he thought that somehow my joke that "I read his website and it was obviously that he was a foggot" was a personal attack.
Due to personal problems like you're arrogance etc and just that your posts pissed me off for a while after the most recent thing in my memory was a strong personal attack. That most definitely is not what you posted and you're missing lots of context.
- Stu tells him that's retarded and asks me to review his mix.
Stu was avoiding drama, I wouldn't exactly describe it that way.
- I give a completely constructive review, with cue points where he had a bad transition, and comments on how to further improve flow and track selection.
Yes, and thankyou.
- Psyshell responds by telling myself and Bierheld that we clearly just don't know forest psy, which is ridiculous, considering I have heard Magadansky play a better set of the same style.
I said different things to you and bierheld. I think bierhald is full of . I think you have a slightly different idea of what forest psy is to me, I agree pretty much with what ektoplazm describes as forest psy. Not what you/magdansky call it (if he even has the same idea of it to you, which is not verified).
- Psyshell also continues to waste time clarifying and rehashing over what the definition of forest psy is, and how since we don't love it, that we are obviously unqualified to give criticism. He also continues to wave off comments on poor transitions with babble about the proper frequencies to use when the problem was actually phrasing and programming.
Argueing over sub genre semantics is pointless, I recognise this.
- Bierheld and I point out to Psyshell that forest psytrance is somewhat of a ridiculous genre to defend, considering it's halfway between twilight/night full-on and darkpsy, and that his mix lacked energy, direction, and purpose.
You and bierheld were saying quite different things. He was essentially saying darkpsy doesn't exist at all, which is ridiculous. You were saying that one bunch of artists do or do not belong within a certain subgenre of darkpsy which is more reasonable.
- Psyshell continues to stupidly defend himself and his mix by telling us that the music was good, and that we are clearly incorrect because our opinions don't matter and we are dumb.
How many times are you up to? Don't confuse your comments with bierhelds. Bierhelds was saying stupid about darkpsy not existing, to which my response is "well honestly this mix isn't aimed at people who don't like darkpsy, so there's no point in you commenting"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ziptnf
This discussion is over for me. Psyshell, your mix showed that your supposedly high standards in psytrance were actually extremely weak selections of aimless forest psy tracks.
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I knew you'd held a grudge against me ever since that full on mix and hence why along with certain personal atacks it was the reason I originally put "no ziptnf" in the OP of the other thread. I didn't want that sortof drama. If you don't want me commenting on your mixes then fine. There's no point being like "well if you say mine suck then yours suck too", that's just pointless. I'd instead argue that we have quite different taste. You choose extremely weak breakbeat full on tracks that I find boring and annoying and you feel the same way about my taste in darkpsy. Different tastes. Who cares! Some of my posts 1-2 years ago were fairly immature (inb4 they still are) and certainly I shouldn't have been that negative with mix commentary. With that said though, sometimes what I do is simply if I don't enjoy a mix then I just look up some of the tracks contained within and take a listen. If I don't enjoy any of them remotely and find them all boring, it's more to do with the dj having ty taste in music... or simply a different taste.
My other point was, maybe we just have different taste in music? If you listen to all 9 tracks singley and don't enjoy a single one, don't even bother posting feedback more detailed than "well, I don't like it". It's just pointless.
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
I actually love this mix. I think it's ing awesome. Good job man:toocool: |
After the intense negativity in this thread I'm not sure if you're serious.
On the subject of negativity on here; suffice to say that if my IRL friends enjoy this and no one on tranceaddict does I don't care. If everyone hates it they could just you know... not bump my thread maybe? That said, at least one poster on here enjoyed it so that's enough for me. Do not however quote this section out of context and assume that extremely critical feedback (no matter how negative) isn't very useful to me to improve as a dj. It is, however if I figure out the critic simply doesn't enjoy the music style it's not really my fault as a dj, it's more to do with different tastes.
Also, full on is different to mix to darkpsy due to what I'm going for. I can't imagine doing a mix transition in full on where cutting mids would be preferable to cutting highs ever. With darkpsy (depending on the kind of darkpsy as well, e.g. horror dark, forest dark, psycore, russian style, israeli style) in certain circumstances like the tracks included in the mix I do believe it is preferable. That was my point and main quibble with ziptnf in terms of mechanical things djing wise. I simply thing that darkpsy is mixed slightly differently to full on.
Ultimately proceeding from there and saying "well you've never really done a darkpsy mix of this particular style" is IMO a valid comment. "I've heard magdansky's" is not really a proper reply. That's not first hand experience. If zipntf wants to do a darkpsy mix of a similar style to this and does it way better in terms of track selection and transitions. I'd love that, it'd give me something to listen to and it'd also show me a lot in terms of how that style is done. If I had to say that I copied the transitions and style from anywhere it'd be from cybernetika's warpcore 3 (dj set) and Goa Gil-Kali Yuga (pro cd released dj set). Absolutely there's room for improvement though, and I welcome feedback of that kind.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
Anyone on this forum should be welcoming feedback and musical discussion on the mixes they post. That's the whole god damn point. |
You misunderstand the point of what I was saying. When the thread devolves into everyone winging about how darkpsy is and ziptnf winging about my mix for random reasons because he's been bitter since my attempt at full on, then sorry to say but that's not a very productive thread. Perhaps instead I should be write "If you can't name 2 darkpsy artists you enjoy" then make some vaguely sensible post and or just don't just winge about darkpsy + "maybe next time you'll make a mix of a genre I'll enjoy" constantly. Seems so obvious that it should've even need to be stated to me. Regardless, I can just ignore stupid like whatever it was bierheld posted in the other thread and just not respond, which is what I probably will do in the future if I actually show some semblence of self control. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psyshell
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:wtf: |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psyshell
When the thread devolves into everyone winging about how darkpsy is and ziptnf winging about my mix for random reasons |
Sorry for the double post, but I just have to address this point^^
Because that's straight up bull.
You were given one of the best reviews I've seen here in DJ promo.
You were the one that made it a genre issue (All you guys just don't understand... I hang out with dark psy DJs, etc.)
You wimped out and deleted the thread. Lucky me, I still get to read all of that.
Ziptnf's review, for any of you wondering, from the previous thread:
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Okay, I'm really not certain how you're going to take my review, Psyshell. There will be no personal attacks here, only my constructive thoughts, which is what Sushi asked of me. If you start thinking that there are any personal attacks here, then I really don't know what to say, as I've never personally attacked you. All I can do is give you my opinion, having listened to thousands of psytrance mixes over the last 4 years, I can sort out what is killer, what's good, what's crap, and what's average. If I had to rate this mix, I'd say it's average. The content is your run-of-the-mill forest psy, of which I found no tracks were truly killer.
There are several things you have to consider when making a mix.
1) What's the point of the mix? What are you trying to accomplish? 50 minutes isn't nearly long enough for a hearty psychedelic trip, and not short enough for a showcase of mixing skills (e.g. cramming 20 tracks into 30 minutes). I feel you should have extended this mix by at least another 20-30 minutes.
2) What is the arrangement of the tracks that will accomplish what you set out on point 1? Since your goal was to make a forest psy mix, you should focus on building the tension throughout the mix. There were several points, especially by the end, where I felt you didn't follow through on this. The last track wasn't particularly suited to be played right after Track 8, because it has a much lower energy level.
3) How are you going to mix the tracks together? I went through and listened from start to finish. The first transition was actually really good. I thought it was perfect. But then your mixing fell apart in the following locations (I'm not going to list out the tracks, that would take too long... although I did like Track 3 and the Drury Nevil Track):
11:50 - you're going from a chilled out goa-esque melody and then quickly cutting out of that track into the new one. There is no fade out at all. No transfer of energy. You should play the next track at the immediate moment when the energy starts declining so the next track can start picking up.
16:10 - another bad transition. The track is cut too quickly again. You need to be careful with phrasing, especially when you're playing forest/darkpsy because there are triple-kicks that can throw off the beat. Phrasing is extremely important in all mixing.
20:42 - I think this is a transition? The energy dies.
26:37 - The next track pops in kinda suddenly. That's the problem here, you should try your best to make the transitions unnoticeable (which is particularly hard with psytrance because of the big basslines), but even fading in is better than not.
31:40 - This was interesting. You transitioned during the breakdown, and it worked better than you were probably intending. It still wasn't in time with the beat, but it was better than the others.
35:40 - Another transition where you didn't consider the levels of the track and fading in. Sometimes full-volume transitions are necessary, but not here.
Again, if you find offense with anything I said, you're trying too hard to pick a fight. I've never had any problem with you, I don't treat you any different than I treat the other s on this forum, especially that ugly mother****** Sushipunk. If I was a bird, I'd poop on him.
For your next mix, try to keep the three points that I listed up there. Select tracks of a certain theme that you want to put in a full-length mix, arrange them in a way that keeps the listener interested where the tracks are releasing tension and energy at exactly the right times, and keep focused on smoother transitions with the proper phrasing so that you don't let the tracks end too early, which kills the energy.
If you want to listen to a mix of mine that has a hypnotic "foresty" vibe, check out Radioactive Sound and if you want, check my latest one, which is my signature.
Take it easy, no need to get so riled up about everything. I was actually shocked to learn you had a problem with me, I never thought I had offended anyone. |
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| Psyshell |
Yes, and that was a very good post of his. I don't see where we differ in views on that? That was a nice and detailed analysis which I have repeatedly said I enjoyed reading/having. It's most certainly not the only thing he's posted though.Also, the new thread was because I was hoping that if I said the right things it wouldn't devolve into a personality bashing fest... which it did a little anyway, but nowhere near as badly. It was basically because it'd be nice if I had a nice dj mix thread that had people saying they did or didn't like it or similar legit criticism (like all of ziptnf's posts really) and not just a bunch of trolls winging about how darkpsy doesn't exist. Leaving the old thread would've meant it'd be that way for at least the first 3 pages, if not more. Also, bear in mind, this is DJ promotion, not the COR. If the thread creator doesn't like where a thread's going they'll simply stop posting their mixes on this forum. There's one TA user who decided to comment on my set on soundcloud, no doubt in large part because this place is full of crappy drama like bierheld and co were instigating (not ziptnf though really).
If you don't like the genre just don't post in the thread. Or leave it at "it's cool that you're posting dj mixes now, but this style isn't for me" rather than several paragraphs explaining why darkpsy is crap. Do you think I care? No? If I wanted to have a dumb and angry musical debate I'd go tell some guy with a biker beard that metal is crap and watch his reaction. Now fine, this thread's gone that way too, however please don't derail the thread for my next set with useless arrogant comments about what styles I should or shouldn't be playing and or whether they exist or not(forest darkpsy existing or not is understandable, darkpsy existing or not, definitely not).
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
You were the one that made it a genre issue (All you guys just don't understand... I hang out with dark psy DJs, etc.) |
Also, saying that someone who hardly ever mixes darkpsy doesn't understand how to mix it is a legit comment. Especially since what I essentially said is this: It's darkpsy, it doesn't need have as steady a flow as full on.
Speaking of genre issues and opinions, it seems to be your opinion that because me and ziptnf both like psytrance that we're meant to get along and we're also supposed to like each other's sets. It unfortunately doesn't work that way. I'd love it if we both liked the exact same artists and tracks and I had heaps of sets of the exact style of psy I listen to to listen to, but that's not the case. Stop trying to force things please. |
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| Bierheld |
Why do you keep confusing my music criticism with genre criticism? Is that some sort of self-defence mechanism? Again, I never said I didn't like the music you call 'darkpsy'. I just don't like the overly complex terminology that comes with psytrance music, to me the differences between all those supposed genres are massively inflated by blinded enthusiasts, which is why I mockingly called them 'micro-niches'.
If you look past all that you'll find that all I actually said was I didn't like some of the tracks in your mix; This is not the same as saying I don't like the genre. It's like you cannot fathom that someone might find these tracks to be sub-par, why would I even listen to this mix if apparently it doesn't fit my tastes at all?
Honestly, I can't remember exactly what I put in that first post I made in the old thread. But I'm pretty sure that although it was opinionated, none of it was offensive. It's all because of your faulty interpretation that this escalated into a needlessly personal and fruitless discussion.
You don't know me, you don't know anything about my musical background, my perspective; Were I'm coming from.
This is why you must avoid making assumptions about me, because all you end up doing is subconsciously projecting your own views upon me, thereby misinterpreting my intent.
What you need to understand first of all is that my proficiency with the English language is pretty basic, and I am therefore limited in how I can express myself. This is worsened by the fact we're working in text only, which means we cannot add tone or other verbal implications which in turn makes it harder to add clear intent to a message.
This can be circumvented with literary prowess, but a lot of people are either incapable of this or simply can't be bothered. You need to keep this in mind before you start victimizing yourself when a post comes of as unnecessarily harsh. Just try and forget about who posted it and respond to the actual content, you can save yourself from a lot of trouble this way.
From what I can tell you're not a great communicator yourself, as you make it look like you want people to listen to your mix but you don't actually want to know what they think about it.
Yes, I could have just refrained from commenting at all, or say "I don't like it" and be done with it. this would be the easy way out, where no one gets hurt but no one wins either. I chose to take a different approach however, mainly because I thought your presentation showed a certain insecurity; You had already mixed this a couple of times and it didn't sound like you were all that happy about it. So I urged you to reflect upon it a bit more.
My angle was focussed towards the musical content rather then technical details, because I found that to be more important in this case. I asked you how you felt about it, how you think it compared to other sets you may or should have taken as an example. It is my way of trying to help you find a way towards growth and improvement, based on my own experiences. I felt you were obsessing too much over technicalities were it would be better to rethink the very basics. I'd still like it if you humoured me and actually responded to those questions. It is very easy to lose track of what your trying to accomplish if you don't allow for an outsider's perspective. You close yourself off too much, constantly re-rationalizing your lacking accomplishments in a way that makes sense to you but does not affect other people's impressions. I think we are all guilty of this in our own ways, so I wouldn't hold it against you. We could help each other a lot this way and all it requires is for us to take a step back and transcend our frail egos in the interest of open and fruitful discussion.
Speaking of which, I also think you have a pretty close-minded and immature view on the matter.
I've seen this before when we had a small argument in a psytrance topic in MD. In fact you seem to think arguing about such topics is 'retarded', as I believe you called it.
Yes, when it involves personal preferences it becomes much harder, impossible even, to come to an agreement in most cases. This however does not mean it's pointless, that's where your missing the point!
(...Get it?)
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-Because when you're making an argument you're forcing yourself to reflect upon your own viewpoints, improving them in the process.
There is no such thing as a stupid discussion, to imply so anyway is insulting to the person inquiring you. |
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