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Logic Pro X is here (pg. 9)
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| echosystm |
Can anyone asplain to me the various PDC and automation problems in Logic and their workarounds? I might buy it for collab purposes. Don't tell me there isn't any. There is; you're just not good enough to notice them. :gsmile:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/logi...s-q-thread.html
This one is even crazier... Apparently Logic has jitter on MIDI itself. Top image is Logic, bottom image is the correct timing. Paulino is going to lose his after he buys that $1,000 low jitter USB cable, only to find out Logic is doing this anyway. :stongue:
http://www.eigenzone.org/2012/12/04/midi-jitter |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| that test was done for logic 9. It involved sending data out and then back in using IAC at some point. |
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| PaULiN0 |
| Ecosystem, don't deny my maximum power for quality, i expect nothing but the best from my 600 dollar thunderbolt cable. :toothless |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
that test was done for logic 9. It involved sending data out and then back in using IAC at some point. |
From looking at the list in the first link, pretty much none of the problems were solved in Logic X though? |
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| Looney4Clooney |
i've never experienced anything that bad and i'm talking hundreds of tracks , 20+ group channels , audio routing to and from slave computers .
It ain't perfect but it an't that bad |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
It ain't perfect but it an't that bad |
I understand that a lot of the time it is not perceivable. What I would like to know is what the limitations ARE and how to avoid them. Eg...
In Cuabse, all timing (automation, audio and tempo sync) is 100% sample accurate, except in one case; automation on a plugin with non-zero latency will be out by the latency of the plugin itself.
In Ableton, automation and tempo sync are only sample accurate if you stick to internal plugins. Every time you insert a VST, automation and tempo sync will be further delayed by the latency of the plugin PLUS the length of your audio buffer. In other words; even with a zero latency VST, Ableton has latency. :wtf: |
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| Looney4Clooney |
no idea/ logic has alot of annoying things. Its kinda why i started using server computers because i was so fed up with `daws and how they start acting funny when you push them.
IN logic 9, sometimes things just don't play. You then have to press S while highligting a region every so often and it comes back. |
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| DJ RANN |
I wouldn't rely too heavily on that thread; there's been quite a few fixes (and even inaccuracies or unrepeatable bugs from the OP) that aren't reported on the first page.
That midi test also happens to be in LP9 with an external midi harp ( :wtf: ) routed out then back in. No one else, apart from maybe one or two other, and just as weird, setups has these problems.
There are bugs, but I don't think any of them would stop you from being able to work in LPX. The timing issues you're concerned about don't exist when working in the box, and with exteranl midi instruments, just about every daw I can think of has it's quirks and bugs. |
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| Seandroid |
| I can repeat that in projects with ~200 tracks I don't experience this. |
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| echosystm |
OK dudes... Here's a rundown on known timing issues (confirmed in a number of threads on GS and KVR).
1. Automation is not sample accurate, regardless of whether you have any plugins loaded or not. There is a delay field that has an arbitrary amount of ticks you can enter. The default is 5, but it generally needs to be about 9 to hit directly on beat (or slightly earlier). This has nothing to do with PDC and simply sets the base timing of the track.
2. All automation is offset by the total latency of the track and is not adjusted per insert. In scenario A below, automation on insert 1 will be out by 100ms and automation on insert 2 will be in time. In scenario B, automation on inserts 1 and 2 will both be in time.
Scenario A:
Insert 1 (zero latency)
Insert 2 (100ms latency)
Scenario B:
Insert 1 (100ms latency)
Insert 2 (zero latency)
3. I couldn't find anything regarding tempo sync, but I think it is safe to assume it works the same as automation. In scenario A above, if insert 1 was a tempo synced plugin, the effect would be out by 100ms.
4. Some plugins are just retarded, such as the gain plugin. You need to automate these by ear.
It's not ideal, but as long as you are aware of the caveats you should be able to work around them. It's definitely a hell of a lot better than what Ableton does. Unfortunately, Cubase is still the king when it comes to this. The problem isn't bad enough for me to go back to Cubase again though.
Before people start with replies like "well I've blown 200 dicks and never noticed this so it's not broken", consider that just because you haven't noticed it does not mean it isn't happening. Perception and opinion don't mean to me. This is science, not religion. |
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| Seandroid |
Completely imperceptible problems sure do suck!
wait |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by Seandroid
Completely imperceptible problems sure do suck! |
Put any high latency plugin as insert 2 on a track (eg. Pro-Q in linear phase), preceded by the gain plugin, then automate the gain. Your automation will now be out by an entire beat or more. Imperceptible my ass.
Just because you have never used plugins that cause you to notice it doesn't mean it isn't a problem. The scenario I've outlined is not some esoteric that I've smoked up just to demonstrate a problem; this is a real example of something you might do when you've got correlated tracks to work with (eg. two mics on a drum).
In less extreme cases, something will just feel off, but you don't know what or why, so you just conclude that an effect just doesn't fit the way you want. I guarantee you everyone on this forum has encountered many timing problems without even realising it. |
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