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Musical / Technical Limitation is actually a good thing? (pg. 2)
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| Vernon Wanderer |
Yeah, limiting yourself can produce some good stuff, but pack it up with some cool tricks and you have a hit, simple track with no pretentious bull, and without having to say "it develops soon, just give it a minute".That's what the masses dig.
A bouncy lead sequence, simple but creative use of the snare drums, memorable melody and a fail-safe track structure = a disposable but win track teenage girls feel sentimental about when they hear it years after.
For extra hearts on your facebook page, add pitched up female vocals, a warm emotional melody, snare buildup and a video with summer colors:
Also, I wouldn't say this music is incredibly stupid, as most of you do, it's just happy summer music. But bigroom Massive 1.3 Team AiR music is a different story... |
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| Vernon Wanderer |
True story. :stongue:
I hate him, but he does what he does really well. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by MSZ
For the record I dont think 99% of my tunes sound amazing, I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE BUY THIS -MSZ 2013 |
you realize i actually hired a russian guy to make a bot to buy your so that it looked random in terms of user and location. I mean thats what i do for people. But when you don't acknowledge the nice things i do that you aren't aware of , i get a little pissed off. |
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| MSZ |
| Isnt that what everyone does? That kind of is expected, I do realize all my sales are out of pity. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
Good dance music , is accessible . |
For top ten, most songs have one primary rhythm. Either the primary rhythm is in focus, or its being played off of. They also have syncopation, and instruments "talking to each other" if you know what I mean.
This song is based off of one-TWO. Everything plays off of the kick and snare.
Intro is one-TWO. Drop relies on heavy accent on the ONE. The mini break plays on your anticipation of the ONE at 2:05.
As far as patterns go you take a pattern, then you modify it in some way. Then you can take that pattern, and modify that, so forth. Have to come back to the original at some point, but that's the jist of it.
Kick-Bass is boring unto itself, but you can take that pattern different places. There are lots of tracks based off this, but what they do with the idea is the important part. Same thing with Kick-Snare, or whatever the flavor of the month rhythm is.
Gotta have syncopation for dance music, and have to respect the groove of the song or else the song will sound pretty bland no matter how much technical polish is put into it. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by MSZ
Isnt that what everyone does? That kind of is expected, I do realize all my sales are out of pity. |
my pity. They are all from me. Thats all. I just expected a bit more thanks. You didn't thank me once. I mean i just don't think you would think i wouldnt' do something like this for you. Kinda makes me feel like you don't know me.
I have been chatting with thelord using this top model character and making him feel good. The i have to say. But its worth it because i know he smiles. I also get a bit of sexual release but not much. I mean i could go into detail if you want. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by MSZ
Isnt that what everyone does? That kind of is expected, I do realize all my sales are out of pity. |
my pity. They are all from me. Thats all. I just expected a bit more thanks. You didn't thank me once. I mean i just don't think you would think i wouldnt' do something like this for you. Kinda makes me feel like you don't know me.
I have been chatting with thelord using this top model character and making him feel good. The i have to say. But its worth it because i know he smiles. I also get a bit of sexual release but not much. I mean i could go into detail if you want. |
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| MSZ |
| I just want you to know that its going straight into my crack habbit, well not straight im running this blowjob favors thing right now and need to get drunk first because the is so raunchy; its much more expensive than crack. |
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| DJ RANN |
! I'd written a response so detailed and long that would make William Ashley himself but I closed the wrong ing browser window and lost :whip:
OK, so now the short version:
First off great responses people.
@Dave - you're right it's common, people have no clue about how much they know but that's where the knife cuts both ways. they're able to produce something musical while having really terrible taste. And herein lies some of the problem....
@TDN - I will never accept mediocrity, and I hate it in all forms of art and expression. My brain just isn't wired that way. Unless something serves a needed function, the dude can't abide, man.
@echosystem - not off topic at all and exactly right. So much of what is put out there now is marketing and because uneducated people have been told it's cool, so they like it. It reminds me of those douche / jockhead guys who are all confidence, incredibly bad taste and no brain but some of them do so ing well in life (to a point) just because of sheer confidence and not realizing what twatbuckets they are. The self belief gets them far. Same with some of the DJ/Producers I'm talking about here; they literally have no idea what they are putting out is utter ing dross and they feel their so much that they keep pushing it out.
@arem - the first part of what you've written is gold, and there's certainly some guys who are masters of knowing how to dumb things down to sell to the masses; Paul Oakenfold springs to mind - he can produce at incredibly high levels but yet at the same time, churn out cheesey pop to played in stadiums. However, what I'm mainly getting at is there many who don't actually know they're producing cheese but have just enough musical talent to make it but not enough to know what they're creating is musically devoid of any substance.
Second part - you're mixing concepts. Tribal rhythms and groups focussing on basics are a primal thing and a point for connection n all. Some of those can be incredibly complex so it's not quite the same thing. As for the mozart comment, your context is all wrong; I won't bring Mozart to your football match if you won't bring CumbaWumba to my club. We're making club music, not dance music for drunken football hooligans in front of a lacklustre line array system. Again, this is a bigger problem with where EDM is right now.
@Clay, you're somewhat right but it's kind of hollow. I'll get to that later.
@Richie - I agree and disagree. There's an art to making simpler stuff and being able to give your talent and aesthetic. Personally, the guys I'm complaining about are all aesthetic (a cheesey, shallow veneer at that) and hardly any real musical talent, but again, that combination of aesthetic, just enough musical knowhow to do it and not enough to realize that you're making dross is what allows them to do it.
Not sure I agree that all dance is accessible. Popular dance is accessible for the masses. Some of the best music we've heard over the years didn't catch fire amongst the great unwashed because it wasn't accessible. That siren house (good name for it btw) now is partly big because it's overly accessible.
@Dave again - no, it's not really about me wanting to make this music or anything holding me back as such. It's the fact that due to my tastes or at least experience with music, I just can't force myself to make that stuff. I love making prog, sometimes even trancier stuff and even tech, but what I'm trying to articulate is that siren house, requires you to be somewhat devoid of education or taste just to sit through it. I think the problem comes when you know better and are simply just producing something you can't stand for an end result($).
There is certainly an art form to creating great simple things. Pryda, JXL even Quincy Jones are all capable of musically advanced art but have been able to produce simple brilliant things when they wanted.
This thread is somewhat inspired by seandroid - he posted up that Siren/Clown house track as a joke that took him an hour to make and got something like 3000 plays and a million comments. It was literally a noise sweep and childish bassline, all with that SHM/EC/LBL vibe and people just lap that up. they don't even get it when you're mocking them. :conf:
@beatflux - I get what you're saying but that's more about songwriting technique. Most of the siren crap we're talking about doesn't have much of that. It's all aesthetic and gimmicky sounds/tricks.
If i'm trying to get anything across it's that I found it amazing that people can produce this stuff in earnest. That video of guetta a while back, discussing production techniques showed how much he feels this crap. It's quite amazing to me.
As for those who always bring up the Hatorade Gifs etc when discussing Avicii - I wouldn't want to have that. In 2 years time he won't be able to get a gig. He be "that guy" who made levels. Same with SHM. These guys need to rake it in while they can, because frankly most of them will never work again and people won't want to be associated with them.
An old family friend while I was growing up was a really successful producer and songwriter in the 80's. I mean big hits. By the time the 90's rolled around, that 80's boat had sailed and sank, and he couldn't get a gig producing anyone. ing talented and a nice guy, but each time he'd try to get back in the game it was "yeah, you made some great stuff. you were "that guy". Thankfully he bought his home and built a life while the money was good but he hasn't produced anything in 20 odd years. |
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| Seandroid |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
This thread is somewhat inspired by seandroid - he posted up that Siren/Clown house track as a joke that took him an hour to make and got something like 3000 plays and a million comments. It was literally a noise sweep and childish bassline, all with that SHM/EC/LBL vibe and people just lap that up. they don't even get it when you're mocking them. :conf:
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Track in question:
Still people telling me "it's actually pretty good!"
Though I feel like you would hate the music I actually produce anyway, this is my most popular track:
I think it's a bit of a stretch to imply that these people are talentless. Yes, Levels has a simple melody, yes the vocals are from Etta James, but neither you nor I wrote that melody or thought to use that vocal sample, and certainly we didn't think to put them in the same track.
I don't think that music has to be intellectually challenging to be powerful, and music can be intelligent without being complicated. |
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| MSZ |
Wat you talkin about this is the best track eva, eva!
I wouldnt stress so much, everything has already pretty much been done. Real talk, you wont get done if you worry about so much and write massive paragraphs on forums. You're robbieJ, |
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