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Musical / Technical Limitation is actually a good thing?
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| DJ RANN |
I've been thinking about this a lot recently, and aside from my stunning lack of music theory, I'm seeing that a lot of the producers who do really well, at least in commercial terms. are guys who are really quite terrible at composition/theory.
There's seems to be a sweet spot combination of:
Creating obvious, simplistic and frankly musically dull melodies
The ability to not cringe at how bad your melody is
Just enough technical ability to turn it in to a track
I'm not being facetious. I was talking a well known DJ/Producer duo who are making serious coin right now and aside from all the marketing bull that they(well, their team) are good at, they had no idea that the incredibly mind numbing dross house they churn out was not the second coming of Mozart in EDM form.
It struck me that if you just have enough musical knowledge to create a chord sequence and uber basic melody, but (AND HERE"S THE IMPORTANT BIT) not enough to realise that this sounds unbelievably formulaic, cheesey and dull, then you could make something that may sell and become a hit.
You just then need to dress it with enough white noise rises and sweep , thrown in a cliched vocal sample right at the drop like "let's ing go!" and before you know it, you've created a big room, but incredibly dumb hit.
Again, I'm not taking the piss. Technically, I have all the tools/chops needed to do this and for experience's sake, I've given it a shot a good few times, but this thing called taste keeps kicking in and my brain just begins to hurt, producing something I cannot in good conscience continue with.
At the same time, again talking about limitations, I've found that my somewhat purist engineering brain gets in the way of creation, and noodling with perfect sounds destroys the flow of what could be a great jam/ideas sketch session.
Anyone else? |
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| meriter |
| Yup.. having ty taste goes a long way |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I've been thinking about this a lot recently, and aside from my stunning lack of music theory, I'm seeing that a lot of the producers who do really well, at least in commercial terms. are guys who are really quite terrible at composition/theory.
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I'll think you'll find that that's very common in all forms of popular music. I've seen that many/most people who make music really have no perception of how much theory or composition they actually know. A lot of people are highly experienced in either performing or creating music without even realizing that they actually know a lot of theory or have developed solid songwriting skills just by listening, copying, and doing.
I can speak from my own experience having played in high school bands, having private lessons, playing in rock bands, etc. before enrolling in college. My first full year in college music theory class was a little shocking to me - I went in thinking that it was going to be challenging learning all this new stuff about music theory/comp, only to find out that almost all of it was review of what I already knew. Yeah, it gave me some new perspective and maybe enlightened me to a few things that I hadn't really thought about, but one of the most important things that I realized was that music theory and composition is something that is much better learned through doing, rather than reading or lecturing about.
In the past few years, I've been mentoring a few local singers, songwriters, producers, etc. and one of the things I've realized in hindsight is that training your ear and developing your piano skills to be able to figure out what others are playing, get ideas from your head into your songs, and just improvising in real-time is arguably a far more useful skill to a modern songwriter than learning theory in the formal sense is (although ideally, they should be learned together IMO). It's far more efficient to improvise and try new ideas, by playing them on a keyboard or guitar than it is to try to compose melodies, interesting bass lines, etc. by clicking in a piano roll. |
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| Teezdalien |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Again, I'm not taking the piss. Technically, I have all the tools/chops needed to do this and for experience's sake, I've given it a shot a good few times, but this thing called taste keeps kicking in and my brain just begins to hurt, producing something I cannot in good conscience continue with.
At the same time, again talking about limitations, I've found that my somewhat purist engineering brain gets in the way of creation, and noodling with perfect sounds destroys the flow of what could be a great jam/ideas sketch session.
Anyone else? |
hmm... artistic integrity, it's not a bad thing, but some just get too hung up on trying to get everything perfect. I certainly appreciate masterful work but I also think a lot of people need to learn how to accept and appreciate mediocrity. |
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| echosystm |
I think genres like minimal techno and this modern siren house largely only exist because there was a lot of people who didn't have the musical skills to make anything better. Their product then became popular by sheer mass or good marketing. Subsequently, people like it because it is all they have been exposed to or they think it is cool. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of artists like Martin Buttrich that I think are great, but I think a lot of modern EDM is just people making noise wrapped up in in a package of coolness.
I used to think EDM was something anyone can do, but over the years I've discovered that virtually all my favourite artists have some kind of musical background. I'm convinced that ty siren music comes from people who don't have this. I believe training your ears at a young age and being exposed to various instruments is key. I don't think theory is important at all. I think technical skills can be picked up at any time, but are largely determined by your intelligence; a lot of people are just not capable of understanding how gear works and subsequently how to apply it beyond preset bashing.
Anyway, my rant is largely off topic. I think commercial success is all about marketing and your music only needs to be on par with the standards of the genre. I don't think having better skills is a disadvantage though, because it means you don't have to put as much effort into marketing as the siren kids. Surely, as someone who is actually passionate about music, that is a better outcome. |
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| arem |
I worked for a stock broker on wall street for a while, the biggest thing my boss emphasized was "you gotta be smart enough to dumb youself down"..the rest of this is a reflection paper im amusing myself with.
try selling stocks to multimillionaires on the fence and you see being dumb can go a long way. But the trick is that even though you simplify to the point of it seeming absurb, theres still a world of complexities in the subliminal and raw energy. Well, as a musician im refering to subliminal as texture, timing, subtle patterns...
On another tip, some guys get record contracts after juust making beats for 6 weeks, usually because they know only what they have to know and they dont get mixed up with knowing everything about it.
Getting weird and deep about it, i think minimalism opens the way for applying a perspective similar to a meditation...in a lot of religions you find a certain amount of repetition and simplicity in the prayers, so, theres an element of that hidden in this artform..i know its cheezy but if you bust out some of those old mind control meditation cd's that were has one synth playing for 30 minutes while some weirdo echoed in and was like "now, imagine a lemon, smell a lemon, be a lemon" or something like that...a lot of new age junkies use to take that stuff seriously...also, thers like some super african tribes with huge drum circles, dancing around all basically like their in a crazy rave...or native americans all doing similar things chanting with droning rhythms dancing around like a big crazy club...
I think all the mozarts in the world gotta take a hike when it comes to this stuff man. They dont bring symphonies to soccermatches. i wouldnt want mozart playin during a soccer match...but some drums and bass banging loud in the stands would definitely hype me up. Just a guess thats right. |
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| cryophonik |
| Interesting thoughts, arem. I definitely agree about the minimal aspect. It's good practice to strive for keeping things interesting with as few elements as you can get away with. |
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| clay |
| this doesnt only apply to music. stupid people have more friends. silly blondes get the most dick and kids early. its the reversed Darwinism we live in. Humans: survival of the weakest. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
Knowing your medium and the limitations of the actual music is a form as one said, being able to dumb oneself down. But skill and aesthetic are at play here. Some people might have skill but lack the required style or taste to achieve the expected aesthetic.
Good dance music , is accessible . If you can use your chops while still maintaining that aesthetic, then well it isn't a limitation.
It does make creation a little more involved in that you are just putting more thaught into things. I guess this is just persnonal. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Again, I'm not taking the piss. Technically, I have all the tools/chops needed to do this and for experience's sake, I've given it a shot a good few times, but this thing called taste keeps kicking in and my brain just begins to hurt, producing something I cannot in good conscience continue with.
At the same time, again talking about limitations, I've found that my somewhat purist engineering brain gets in the way of creation, and noodling with perfect sounds destroys the flow of what could be a great jam/ideas sketch session.
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You seem to be a pretty rational thinker and it sounds to me like maybe that is imposing a pretty hefty limitation on your creativity. My advice is to just focus on finishing something in your own vision and within your own limitations without any concern for what's going on with the Beatport Top 10.
I may be wrong here, but I also wonder if there's something more at play here that may be holding you back. Obviously, you are an incredibly knowledgeable and experienced guy when it comes to all things studio/audio-related, so I wonder if you feel some pressure on yourself to create something that meets, not only your own expectations, but also the expectations that you perceive other people have of you. In other words, a guy as bright as you must be able to pound out a BP Top 10 track while taking a dump, right? If that's the case, don't sweat it. I think everybody who has been around here for a while (myself included) feels that way on some level - I mean, the proof is in the pudding, right? Well, not exactly. Having extensive knowledge in some areas of music production doesn't necessarily equate with being a great songwriter.
Personally, I'm comfortable knowing that my EDM productions are nowhere near my abilities or knowledge in other areas or genres and knowing that people with a fraction of my experience are pounding out quality EDM tracks that I could only dream of. That's largely because I really don't listen to nearly enough EDM and don't keep up with who's who and what's hot in the scene, so I have a tendency to not sound anything like the current trends. I absorb styles into my productions more slowly and subtly, rather than living on the cutting edge of a style that doesn't really interest me enough to chase it. I get criticized for that often and I'm OK with it because, even though people think that I should be trying to sound like everybody else in the EDM, I have no interest in that, nor do I have much interest in reaching the BP Top 10. Those are some of my limitations. Maybe you're in the same/similar boat, maybe not. |
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| MSZ |
| For the record I dont think 99% of my tunes sound amazing, I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE BUY THIS -MSZ 2013 |
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