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someone tell me... (pg. 4)
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| DARK MAN X |
Please dont blame violence on the media, music or television. If there is any blame to be pointed at anyone source it should be the parenting these days. Lets face it, parents these days suck, they dont take the time needed to raise there children properly. Sometimes its not the parents just a bad seed, but in alot of cases you will see that parenting is where it all starts.
I to believe in the right to protect yourself, but unfortunately these days thats not what guns are used for. You never hear of John Doe saving his family cuz he had a desert eagle under his pillow. If the stats pointed that way I'd be all for but there not.
peace |
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| nrjizer |
| quote: | Originally posted by mr. poopyhead
and that's EXACTLY the ing problem in the states... everyone's a vigilante with a gun.
i read in time that there are "border guards" in texas who shoot at mexicans trying to cross the border illegaly... these "law abiding" citizens are just violent vigilantes (i need a thesaurus, haha.. )
anyways.. watch that simpsons episode about homer and the gun... it does a pretty good job satirizing america's gun problem. |
Homer's problem is that he was uneducated. A gun, like lots of other things, can be harmful if misused, but when applied properly, can be a powerful defensive tool. You need to be educated before you buy/own one. Its just like driving a car. Do you let your 16 year old kid with no driving experience at all just hop in the car one day and drive to the mall? No. We have drivers ed, learners permits, and all of that to ensure that before someone can drive, they learn how to first.
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
The "right to bear arms" was guaranteed in a different time. Back then a lot of people lived with the reality of wildlife (eg grizzlies), attacks by Native Americans, as well as the (paranoid) fear of the British reclaiming their colony.
My suggestion is this: If you want to use a 1791 document to guarantee a right to own guns, then surely the type of guns you can own should be the same as the type that would have existed in 1791: Heavy, muzzle-loading beasts, that took like 10 seconds to load between shots if you were quick |
Back then, there were indians, bears, and british. Today we have drug dealers, home invaders, and snipers in our suburbs shooting people for no apparant reason. I guarantee you that if you do away with the second amendment and ban the sale/ownership of guns in america, it wouldn't prevent any gun crimes. 99% of criminals purchase their guns illegially anyways.
About 20-30 minutes away from where I live is a Georgia town called Kennesaw. In Kennesaw, every owner of a home is REQUIRED BY LAW TO OWN A FIREARM. And guess what? The crime rate in this city is very, very low. |
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| ali92 |
| quote: | Originally posted by nrjizer
Homer's problem is that he was uneducated. A gun, like lots of other things, can be harmful if misused, but when applied properly, can be a powerful defensive tool. You need to be educated before you buy/own one. Its just like driving a car. Do you let your 16 year old kid with no driving experience at all just hop in the car one day and drive to the mall? No. We have drivers ed, learners permits, and all of that to ensure that before someone can drive, they learn how to first.
Back then, there were indians, bears, and british. Today we have drug dealers, home invaders, and snipers in our suburbs shooting people for no apparant reason. I guarantee you that if you do away with the second amendment and ban the sale/ownership of guns in america, it wouldn't prevent any gun crimes. 99% of criminals purchase their guns illegially anyways.
About 20-30 minutes away from where I live is a Georgia town called Kennesaw. In Kennesaw, every owner of a home is REQUIRED BY LAW TO OWN A FIREARM. And guess what? The crime rate in this city is very, very low. |
Why does everyone in that town HAVE to own a firearm? Even if guns were outlawed RIGHT NOW, that would do NOTHING to stop criminals from doing crime. The main question here is: HOW DO YOU STOP THEM FROM GETTING THE GUNS? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by nrjizer
No, theres not. Theres a thing called the second amendment that gives citizens the right to bear arms, and for damn good reason. Even if you banned all guns, criminals would still get them. When someone busts in your house with a gun, what are you going to defend your life with?
Btw, I believe that the end to these shootings will be brought by a law abiding citizen who takes this guy down with his own gun. |
And there in lies the paradox...
If you land up shooting the guy you better kill him.
Because if don't, the criminal can send you to court for attempted murder OR the DA (District Attorney) will send your ass to court for murder; you better have a witness...
I love the American court system...:rolleyes: |
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| nrjizer |
| quote: | Originally posted by ali92
Why does everyone in that town HAVE to own a firearm? Even if guns were outlawed RIGHT NOW, that would do NOTHING to stop criminals from doing crime. The main question here is: HOW DO YOU STOP THEM FROM GETTING THE GUNS? |
Everyone is required to own a firearm because it is a creative attempt to keep the crime rate down. If you knew that someone owned a gun, would you bust into their house in the middle of the night? Apparantly its working very well.
How do you stop criminals from getting guns? You dont. You never will. This is why law abiding citizens have the right to be armed, so they can protect themselves from those criminals. |
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| Ekstasis |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
The "right to bear arms" was guaranteed in a different time. Back then a lot of people lived with the reality of wildlife (eg grizzlies), attacks by Native Americans, as well as the (paranoid) fear of the British reclaiming their colony.
My suggestion is this: If you want to use a 1791 document to guarantee a right to own guns, then surely the type of guns you can own should be the same as the type that would have existed in 1791: Heavy, muzzle-loading beasts, that took like 10 seconds to load between shots if you were quick |
I totally agree with this. The consitiution gave the people the right to bear arms so they could have a millita to protect the country. This really isnt nessecary anymore since we have a 4 branch military.
Its so easy for criminals to obtain guns in the US because they wait for someone to obtain one legally then steal it. If there were less guns in circulation, then there would be less crimes commited with them. |
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| quddha |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vanilla
****I have no prior knowledge of this before this post, this is all speculative****
...common, how hard could it be to find him, check records and see who owns a sniper rifle. It's not like sniper rifles are easy to get ahold of, let alone shoot.
My conclusion, someone who was in the military or has extensive training. |
Actually, the rifle he uses can be bought over the counter in the US. Now, someone explain to me why the would you need a sniper rifle to shoot a deer... |
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| FuzzyGreen |
| quote: | Originally posted by discitelli
firearm for that reason, whats stopping your 16 year son from taking that gun, bringing it too school, |
Good parenting and trigger locks. |
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| quddha |
| quote: | Originally posted by nrjizer
About 20-30 minutes away from where I live is a Georgia town called Kennesaw. In Kennesaw, every owner of a home is REQUIRED BY LAW TO OWN A FIREARM. And guess what? The crime rate in this city is very, very low. |
Most smaller towns have very very low crime rates, regardless if people own guns or not. The violent crime rate in Toronto is fractional compared to those in a State-side equivalent metropolis, is it because of gun control? who knows.
But you certainly don't need over-the-counter sniper rifles for self defence. :P "OH NO! There's a drug-dealer running at me 500m away. good thing I have a sniper rifle."
The right to bear arms has been warped in modern times. The true spirit of the law was the right to act in self defence, not the literal meaning of the right to own wahtever assult weapons that are ultimately designed for one purpose, to kill and mame. |
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| ProDiGaL |
the guys knows his stuff, .223 is one of the most common calibres around, its even used by military too (m16) so it makes it much harder to trace than a more exotic calibre. Its actually designed more to injure than kill, but this guy must be targeting vital organs.
oh and nrjizer you wrote "This is why law abiding citizens have the right to be armed, so they can protect themselves from those criminals."
If law abiding citizens take the law into their own hands why bother even having cops?? just hand out guns to all |
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| nrjizer |
| quote: | Originally posted by quddha
Most smaller towns have very very low crime rates, regardless if people own guns or not. The violent crime rate in Toronto is fractional compared to those in a State-side equivalent metropolis, is it because of gun control? who knows.
But you certainly don't need over-the-counter sniper rifles for self defence. :P "OH NO! There's a drug-dealer running at me 500m away. good thing I have a sniper rifle."
The right to bear arms has been warped in modern times. The true spirit of the law was the right to act in self defence, not the literal meaning of the right to own wahtever assult weapons that are ultimately designed for one purpose, to kill and mame. |
1) The population of Kennesaw was counted at 17,000 4 years ago. Not exactly a small town. Its crime rate is a lot lower than most other georgia towns of the same size or smaller.
2) What this sniper in DC is using is probably not an over the counter rifle. Its probably a custom assault rifle purchased illegially. ANY rifle can become a "sniper rifle" simply by adding a scope. Scopes are used safely and legally all the time in hunting. Anyone can put a scope on a piece of hunting rifle and kill someone from a few hundred yards out with some practise.
3) The right to bear arms hasnt been warped. Its the same as it ever was, you have a right to bear arms. It never has said "You have a right to bear small firearms and pistols, not big ass rifles." What about fast cars, like a corvette or ferrari? No where in the US is the legal speed limit over 80 or so (except in montana I think, where theres no limit at all on highways). Why would you need a car that can do 140+ easy... unless you want to break the law and speed like a madman? Those cars are ultimately designed the way they are for one reason: to go fast. So we should just ban sports cars, right? pfft. Its the same way with rifles. Yes they are designed to kill.
So are all guns. But you can easily kill someone with a tiny ass .38 just as well as you could with a high powered rifle (maybe not from extreme distance, but my point remains the same). The right to bear arms is still in the same spirit: defense. But whether someone chooses to defend themself with a rifle or a little pistol is irrelevant.
| quote: | Originally posted by ProDiGaL
If law abiding citizens take the law into their own hands why bother even having cops?? just hand out guns to all |
The right to bear arms isnt about citizens taking the law into their own hands, its mostly about defense of yourself and loved ones. If someone breaks into your house with a gun or holds you up at gunpoint, what good will the cops do? Are you going to have time to call them and wait for them to arrive? You could easily be shot in that time. Thats why law abiding citizens should have the right to own guns. |
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| EbolaCola |
Just some food for thought:
The United States obviously gives citizens the right to bear arms (own guns).
Over 10,000 deaths are filed each year in the U.S. due to gun shootings. The U.S. has the most shooting deaths than any other country.
In research that I've found, last year the next country to follow for deaths by gun (note LAST YEAR before the Mid-East Conflict became so bad) was I think Germany, with less than 200 deaths per gun. Doesn't the U.S. see that guns are a problem. Personally, I'm anti-NRA/owning of guns and I think if we got rid of guns it would make the country a lot more safer. |
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