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someone tell me... (pg. 5)
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| quddha |
| quote: | Originally posted by nrjizer
1) The population of Kennesaw was counted at 17,000 4 years ago. Not exactly a small town. Its crime rate is a lot lower than most other georgia towns of the same size or smaller.
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ok, maybe i'm an urban boy, but to me that is a small town. Here in Canada, a 17,000 population town does not get ANY violent crimes. None of us have guns. When I was in high school, I was never scared of someone bringing in daddy's gun and shooting me. I was living in a 500,000 population city, and the only people who had guns were people in organized crime.
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2) What this sniper in DC is using is probably not an over the counter rifle. Its probably a custom assault rifle purchased illegially. ANY rifle can become a "sniper rifle" simply by adding a scope. Scopes are used safely and legally all the time in hunting. Anyone can put a scope on a piece of hunting rifle and kill someone from a few hundred yards out with some practise.
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Fact is he is using an over-the-counter rifle that can be easily purchased, as read in the news. See thats the scary part: "Anyone can put a scope on a piece of hunting rifle and kill someone" including people who just snap one day. The potential is there. In the end people kill people, but guns make it too damn easy.
Besides, where do illegal guns come from? Guns stolen from legal sources. :P
| quote: | | The right to bear arms hasnt been warped. Its the same as it ever was, you have a right to bear arms. It never has said "You have a right to bear small firearms and pistols, not big ass rifles." What about fast cars, like a corvette or ferrari? No where in the US is the legal speed limit over 80 or so (except in montana I think, where theres no limit at all on highways). Why would you need a car that can do 140+ easy... unless you want to break the law and speed like a madman? Those cars are ultimately designed the way they are for one reason: to go fast. So we should just ban sports cars, right? pfft. Its the same way with rifles. Yes they are designed to kill. |
Thats why you can't use that analogy. Cars are designed for transportation and picking up chicks. Guns are designed to kill. Where do you draw the line? How much is too much? The two shotguns and carbine used in Columbine were purchased legally, not on the back market. In other countries, two losers like them would only get massive beatdowns in the schoolyard.
Fine, you think guns serve as a deterrent for criminals, and you feel safer if your family has firearms in the house. I have a different philosophy living in a country with far less firearms floating around. Eitherway, statistics speak:
Homocide Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
USA : 4.08 (1999)
Canada : 0.54 (1999)
Switzerland : 0.50 (1999)
Scotland : 0.12 (1999)
England/Wales : 0.12 (1999/00)
Japan : 0.04* (1998)
* Homicide & attempted homicide by handgun
Data collected by Philip Alpers, Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and HELP Network
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Thats 34 times more homocide gun deaths in USA than in the UK where even policemen don't carry guns. Guns don't kill people, People kill people, guns just make it alot damn easier. (any sicko can go on a killing spree, doesn't even need black market connections) |
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| nrjizer |
| quote: | | ok, maybe i'm an urban boy, but to me that is a small town. Here in Canada, a 17,000 population town does not get ANY violent crimes. None of us have guns. When I was in high school, I was never scared of someone bringing in daddy's gun and shooting me. I was living in a 500,000 population city, and the only people who had guns were people in organized crime. |
I dont know when you got out of high school, but 5 or 6 years ago I dont think anyone in the US was afraid of that either. But I know ive heard of at least 2 or so school shootings in Canada too in the past few years, so its not like you guys are immune from all that.
| quote: | Fact is he is using an over-the-counter rifle that can be easily purchased, as read in the news. See thats the scary part: "Anyone can put a scope on a piece of hunting rifle and kill someone" including people who just snap one day. The potential is there. In the end people kill people, but guns make it too damn easy.
Besides, where do illegal guns come from? Guns stolen from legal sources. :P |
I dont think this is someone who just "snapped." I think this is someone who planned this out carefully. A terrorist maybe? who knows. Its true that anyone who snaps can go and kill someone with a gun, but they could also smack someone with a baseball bat or stab them with a kinfe.
And just where would someone steal a gun from a legal source? Have you ever even seen a gun shop? Theyve got bars on the windows and guns locked up. Its not like people go and do a smash n' grab robbery. Most guns criminals use are sold on the black markets that were smuggled into the country from afar. uying a gun in the US requires you to go through an extensive background check and wait period. The gun you buy can easily be traced back to you. Criminals dont bother with those guns.
| quote: | | Cars are designed for transportation and picking up chicks. Guns are designed to kill. Where do you draw the line? How much is too much? The two shotguns and carbine used in Columbine were purchased legally, not on the back market. In other countries, two losers like them would only get massive beatdowns in the schoolyard. |
Cars are designed for transportation, but they can easily be abused with their speed. Thousands die each year from reckless driving (either their own or someone elses). True, many guns are designed to kill, but hunting/recreation are other legal uses for the gun. Anyone can take a duck rifle and kill someone. They can also start doing 120 down the highway and hit another car, killing someone. Someone could take a kitchen knife made for eating steak and stab someone. Someone could take a hammer and hit someone on the head with it. Someone could also do plenty of legimate things with the hammer/car/knife, same with the gun. They could hunt with it, shoot targets for sport, or defend their family from a threat that may or may not come to be (hey, doesnt hurt to be prepared right?)
As for the columbine shotguns, it should be noted that the 2 shooters had the guns hanging on their ing walls for months, and their folks didnt do a thing about it. This is a first class example of TY parenting.
| quote: | Fine, you think guns serve as a deterrent for criminals, and you feel safer if your family has firearms in the house. I have a different philosophy living in a country with far less firearms floating around. Eitherway, statistics speak:
Homocide Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
USA : 4.08 (1999)
Canada : 0.54 (1999)
Switzerland : 0.50 (1999)
Scotland : 0.12 (1999)
England/Wales : 0.12 (1999/00)
Japan : 0.04* (1998)
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The statistics dont lie, but they dont really tell the details. As far as I know, the US has a LOT more things like gangs, organized crime, drug dealers, slums, ect. We also have a lot more border space than any of those countries, so its a LOT easier to smuggle guns and stuff into the country that can be used illegially.
Anyways, I dont want to get in a big argument about all of this. My overall point is that any nutbag can go crazy and kill someone, it doesnt always take a gun to do it. Its unfortunate, but many people live in a world that just isnt very safe, and they have legitamate reasons to defend themselves with a firearm. Even if the sale/ownership of guns was made illegial tomorrow in the US, criminals would still find ways to get them. A gun is a tool, and like many many other things, it can be used to harm, but it can also be used safely for legitamate purposes. |
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| marco.V |
| he's just a human being |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by nrjizer
3) The right to bear arms hasnt been warped. Its the same as it ever was, you have a right to bear arms. It never has said "You have a right to bear small firearms and pistols, not big ass rifles." What about fast cars, like a corvette or ferrari? No where in the US is the legal speed limit over 80 or so (except in montana I think, where theres no limit at all on highways). Why would you need a car that can do 140+ easy... unless you want to break the law and speed like a madman? Those cars are ultimately designed the way they are for one reason: to go fast. So we should just ban sports cars, right? pfft. Its the same way with rifles. Yes they are designed to kill.
So are all guns. But you can easily kill someone with a tiny ass .38 just as well as you could with a high powered rifle (maybe not from extreme distance, but my point remains the same). The right to bear arms is still in the same spirit: defense. But whether someone chooses to defend themself with a rifle or a little pistol is irrelevant. |
To some extent, you may have a valid legal argument. I, however, would argue that if so, it needs to be changed immediately. If you give people the right to bear any arms, it leaves tremendous potential for disaster. Consider the following categorical syllogism:
P1: You have the right to bear any arms.
P2: Nuclear ICBMs are arms.
C: You have the right to bear Nuclear ICBMs.
You have to draw the line somewhere, why not draw it before rifles? |
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| Tonis |
What An Evil S.O.B.
I hope he dies an painful Slow death.:mad: |
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| DJ-Ande |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tonis
What An Evil S.O.B.
I hope he dies an painful Slow death.:mad: |
yo mr tonis.............welcome 2 ta
and agreed with what u said, its just pointless, he thinks he'z god acording 2 police, they said they found a note saying somehting like that.............:D :p |
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| DJ-Lukeass |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Ande
yo mr tonis
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LOL, i like that name 'mr tonis'
:D :p |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Lukeass
LOL, i like that name 'mr tonis'
:D :p |
Sounds like toe nails...:toothless |
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| Verona^My |
| quote: | Originally posted by mr. poopyhead
why in the would anyone snipe down a 13 year old at school?!? |
why would he snipe 10 other people as well? Does age really matter when someone murders someone? The guy went crazy, or he's a terrorist... |
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| Verona^My |
| quote: | Originally posted by nrjizer
The statistics dont lie, but they dont really tell the details. As far as I know, the US has a LOT more things like gangs, organized crime, drug dealers, slums, ect. We also have a lot more border space than any of those countries, so its a LOT easier to smuggle guns and stuff into the country that can be used illegially.
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The drug war is what caused the elevation in crime in the US. Rival gangs fighting for turf over the sale of illegal drugs... legalize drugs and
a) you can fight more severe crimes such as rape, murder, burglary, snipers
b) free up prison space to allow for tougher sentances for the above crimes, and others as well
c) enjoy a reduced crime rate thanks to the reduction in gang activity. (remember Prohibition) well it's time to end the prohibition of all illegal drugs.
I happen to agree with legalization of drugs, and I've never done any, it just makes sense to me. |
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| DJ-Ande |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Sounds like toe nails...:toothless |
LOLOLOL:happy2: :happy2: :happy2: |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Verona^My
The drug war is what caused the elevation in crime in the US. Rival gangs fighting for turf over the sale of illegal drugs... legalize drugs and
a) you can fight more severe crimes such as rape, murder, burglary, snipers
b) free up prison space to allow for tougher sentances for the above crimes, and others as well
c) enjoy a reduced crime rate thanks to the reduction in gang activity. (remember Prohibition) well it's time to end the prohibition of all illegal drugs.
I happen to agree with legalization of drugs, and I've never done any, it just makes sense to me. |
I second this motion. As an additional benefit, the legalization of controlled substances would be very good for the economy. |
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