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rape prevention controversy (pg. 3)
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| SYSTEM-J |
| I'm starting to wonder if hyper-liberalism has intensified to the point of counter-productivity, and may actually be responsible for bull like Men's Rights Activists. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Floorfiller
I would be interested to see some statistics on whether or not the person is someone they know committing the rape or strangers.
I feel like I've heard that it is far more common for women to be raped by people they know, which I think would kinda put a wrench in the whole "don't put yourself in bad scenarios" arguments... |
https://rainn.org/get-information/s...sault-offenders
Basically, the majority of rape is committed inside a familiar environment, and by someone the victim knows. That's how they get away with it, and child predators use the same tactic: get them to trust you, isolate them, then subdue them with alcohol or violence and maintain plausible deniability from there. After all, they elected to be with you! They wanted it! They're just lying and changing their minds now!
As SYSTEM-J pointed out, the hide-in-an-alley or break-into-your-house kind of assault, sexual and otherwise- will likely never been effectively eradicated, as it's more a socioeconomic symptom. But the idea among men that they deserve sex for being your friend? That this bitch is just friendzoning you? That she has totally wanted you for as long as you've known her, and that you spent $154 at Morton's and she's had 4 glasses of wine and owes it to you anyway, it's no big deal and she's ing lying if she tells anyone otherwise? Something can be done to change this attitude, because it absolutely infects every one of us at some level. |
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| Dykes_on_Jay |
| It was 152$ fyi. |
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| PivotTechno |
In an ideal world, we put the onus on what is still largely a patriarchal society to correct its behaviour. Meaning, women don't need to change , but men sure as hell do.
| quote: | Originally posted by PaULiN0
Some times I just can't hold it in and I need some effing release, godamnit !!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek: |
A Gentlemen's Guide To Rape Culture
To wit, your online behaviour repeatedly plummets into the categories of infantile, repulsive and terribly unfunny. I'm guessing it's not far off from how you act in real life, and I'm also guessing that because of this, sane, smart women stay away from you in droves. |
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| Anxieties |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
As with almost any crime, it's impossible to eradicate rape completely, but there are ways to minimise it as much as possible. The first lies with potential victims, who should take the appropriate measures to minimise any potential threat. In an ideal world nobody would break into your house, but you can't complain if you leave your doors unlocked and your windows open at night and wake up to find your TV missing. You've failed to take the easy and appropriate precautions against a threat that very obviously exists, and while you may be a victim you're also a ing idiot. Likewise, girls shouldn't have to watch their drinks all the time in a club, but they're being ing stupid if they don't. The controversy here comes from when people extend this from obvious and sensible advice (watch your drinks / don't get so intoxicated in public as to lose your ability to make sound judgement) to thinly disguised misogyny (don't wear provocative clothing).
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I used to think exactly like this. It's true that people can prevent crimes (including rape) by being more cautious. It's true, for example, that if you leave your car unlocked with diamonds in it, that invites theft that would otherwise not happen.
I used to find it irritating when a perfectly sensible person (man or woman) would get attacked for making rational statements about the issue of preventing rape by teaching girls what to avoid. They'd almost always qualify their arguments by saying "Yes, we should definitely teach boys not to rape, I completely agree with that," then they'd go "BUT it's also a good idea to teach girls how to be more careful and prevent certain situations from happening."
What I now realize is that many feminists are attempting to purge all the toxic attitudes about rape such as "she was asking for it by wearing that/being with those guys/walking there/giving those signals/etc." by drilling home the point that ultimately, the onus is on men to not rape and never deviating from that point. They're trying to do this by completely discouraging any talk of what women can do to prevent rape, regardless of how rational it is because they believe that such notions cause or allow the more extreme attitudes of "She was asking for it" to emerge.
The belief that there's some arbitrary point where it becomes understandable to rape a woman is an extremely dangerous one and that's what many feminists are fighting against when they attack the various "tips for avoiding rape" that some people suggest. I think the strategy is to eventually make it taboo for anyone to ever think anything like "well she was wearing X" or "she shouldn't have done Y" for any reason. We can't change this type of attitude toward every crime, but I guess they're trying to at least make rape the exception.
This also explains the vehement objections to comparing rape to other crimes. "Rape is not robbery." They don't want any of those attitudes to be applied to rape. Yes, we look at anyone who leaves their car unlocked and filled with cash in plainview as an idiot, since nobody would disagree with that, many people would think: well, analogously, a woman who does X/Y/Z is also an idiot if she gets raped. However, even if a woman walks down the street in the sexiest outfit we've ever seen, it should still be taboo for anyone to think "she's asking for it." Not only is such thinking wrong in even that case, but it opens up the door to skepticism in less extreme cases and takes away the focus from "was she raped" to "did she invite the rape" which is irrelevant always. They're trying to filibuster all such ty ideas from arising by driving home the simplest points possible: men shouldn't rape, women are never responsible for being raped. Feminists (rightly) approach this issue assuming that most people in society will develop retarded views about rape if such a thing like "What women can do to avoid being raped" exists. It makes sense to just nip it in the bud, I guess.
Before you attack me, I already understand many of the points you might raise. I understand the argument that it's somewhat irresponsible to not be cautious in this world while we wait for society to educate all males ever to not rape women. I understand that if some women were cautious in certain situations, they could have completely avoided being raped, meaning that there is something women can do to avoid/prevent being raped. I also understand you have good intentions and only want to prevent women from being raped and the idea of anyone suggesting you're a misogynist because you're advising women to change anything about their behavior is infuriating (believe me, I get it).
But I can also understand the other side's intentions and why they're attempting to achieve their goals with those methods. I think on a societal level it's better to just have a universal message everywhere that there is never a reason to rape and simply leave at that. (Of course, for any of my family members I will personally teach all of those girls what to avoid out there to not get raped, are you ing kidding me? We do not live in a utopia and to expect other people to behave is ing retarded. Don't tell any feminists I said that, though.) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Basically, the majority of rape is committed inside a familiar environment, |
the vagina? |
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| Dykes_on_Jay |
| Vag is free man. Anal is the way to go. Anal rape has a wonderful ring to it. |
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| Anxieties |
I think because rape usually involves someone the victim knows, that's usually what complicates issues. Not wanting to report out of fear of destroying personal relationships, skepticism and people taking sides because they know the abuser, your guard being down because it was someone you deeply trusted, etc.
Most of those "don't put yourself in these situations with sketchy people" tips don't even really apply to most cases. Most women already know all of that from common sense and are already highly alert in unfamiliar places just in general.
People are uncomfortable acknowledging that it's more likely that family or friends will rape you. They're the ones you have to watch out for more than strangers on the street. That's extremely hard to process for some people, they simply can't look at family and friends like that. They'll just put in the back of their mind, leaving them vulnerable if it happens ("I can't believe you're doing this to me, out of all people... this can't be happening.")
Part of the problem is that is that it's much uglier and complicated than most people are willing to recognize. So much of it also stems from poor communication, misunderstandings, even regret. Even if we could rid the world of everyone who intended to rape, there'd still be situations that resulted in rape and I'm not even talking about (very rare) false rape accusations. Rape is not going away even if boys are educated and even if every last one of them didn't want to do it, it's just not that simple. |
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| Psyshell |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
the vagina? |
I assume in your case we're only talking about your birth right? |
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| aquila |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psyshell
I assume in your case we're only talking about your birth right? |
bet that sounded awesome in your head, right? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Anxieties
This also explains the vehement objections to comparing rape to other crimes. "Rape is not robbery." They don't want any of those attitudes to be applied to rape. Yes, we look at anyone who leaves their car unlocked and filled with cash in plainview as an idiot, since nobody would disagree with that, many people would think: well, analogously, a woman who does X/Y/Z is also an idiot if she gets raped. However, even if a woman walks down the street in the sexiest outfit we've ever seen, it should still be taboo for anyone to think "she's asking for it." |
Firstly, I'm not talking about what clothing a woman is wearing. I personally think this is a bit of a mythical situation; that a woman wearing less clothing in the street suddenly becomes more of a viable rape target. Secondly, I'm never suggesting a woman could be "asking for it" - that rape can ever, in any circumstances, be justifiable. Thirdly, most of the common sense guidelines that minimise the chances of rape also minimise the chances of other crime, such as murder or mugging.
It's all well and good that feminists want to adopt a universal policy that places the onus entirely on men, but feminists have a tendency to place the responsibility entirely on the social system and not on the individual, which can be seen in the discourse surrounding issues such as body image. As I mentioned earlier, this kind of unrealistic militant stance may have honourable intentions but it ends up being counter-productive because it alienates its target audience. If feminists are speaking straight to men, as you suggest, they'd be wiser to make some blow-softening concessions rather than a constant cacophony of shrill, impractical insistence.
One potentially controversial subject that hasn't really been broached yet is the confusing grey area of drunken sexual encounters. There is a certain degree of paranoia amongst men that women can wake up blurry-eyed in the morning, have some fuzzy memory of a sexual act that they, in their sober mind would never countenance, and leap to the assumption of rape. I've had a personal experience where a girl I know has been ridiculously drunk and I've ended up looking after her during a night out, only for her to come on extremely strong with me (I had the bite marks to prove it). Only a chance intervention stopped us having sex, but when I tried to bring the subject up a couple of days later she had absolutely no memory of it and was actively freaked out by the mention of it. That kind of is deeply scary as a man, and the hardline feminist stance that rape is only ever the fault of a man is going to meet resistance with any man who's ever been in that kind of situation. |
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