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Vegas turns up nose at superstar DJs (pg. 2)
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| Dykes_on_Jay |
| Pvd showed us he was a head of the game. |
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| Mr.Mystery |
| Incidentally, Avicii just announced he'll quit touring. |
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| Trance-M |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Incidentally, Avicii just announced he'll quit touring. |
Volvo will be happy too, waste of their money anyways IMO. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Incidentally, Avicii just announced he'll quit touring. |
Lol, it's just the same thing as the douchebag Vegas promoters announcing they're not booking his ilk anymore - it's dried up so time to get out.
The people who will really benefit from this are the DJ's that didn't sell out and kept plugging away in the underground.
I know for a fact the shm guys were (and still are) distraught at the reality of them never being taken seriously again in terms of music due to them selling out. |
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| Alex |
| Ya but their shoes... |
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| Jon_Snow |
| Your sellout take is silly. Superstar DJs get paid more because they can draw more people and those people are willing to pay more. It's not based on their artistic merit. The promoters/venues are willing to pay extra as long as the dj fulfill their end of the bargain. There isn't any shame in getting paid as much as the market willing to bear. Music is like fashion it comes and goes of its own accord. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
Your sellout take is silly. Superstar DJs get paid more because they can draw more people and those people are willing to pay more. It's not based on their artistic merit. The promoters/venues are willing to pay extra as long as the dj fulfill their end of the bargain. There isn't any shame in getting paid as much as the market willing to bear. Music is like fashion it comes and goes of its own accord. |
bollocks. That period (and it's been an incredibly short and over exaggerated) of DJ's getting paid the most was mainly in Vegas in terms of clubs. The dj cost was loss leading in itself - they didn't recoup what they paid out on those nights, but they did it for prestige; book one or two superstar DJ's a week and make a loss, while making bank as the place to be on the other 5 or 6 other nights of the week. They also generated money by the punters eating, gambling and staying in the hotel or the club, so as an overall it would profitable but it wasn't the DJ themselves.
Take marquee for example, one of the largest capacity clubs at 5000 at max. They've paid as much as $1.5m for DJ talent on a given weekend. That means, just to cover that one single expenditure, every patron with out fail has to part with $280 each. Again, that just covers DJ fees - that does not include inventory of alcohol, staff, security, lighting, sound, etc etc etc. That probably makes the needed spend well between $300-$400 for every single person at max capacity.
Sure you get the odd russian or arab dropping $50K-$100k a night but that doesn't even come close to closing the gap.
The insane DJ fees were worth paying as a loss leader it when the scene was packed and buzzing because it made the incidental spends well worth it (not to mention buried the competition), but when the scene started to drop off those loss making fees can't be justified, and that's why Vegas is "going underground" and Avicii is not touring anymore.
Festivals are a different beast because of the much higher attendance numbers and much higher price of entry, but those don't have anything to do with this thread.
Dj's sell out because they can. You realize that Guetta was Dj'ing for 20 years before he made a conscious decision to take advantage of a scene that was ripe. Same like Tiesto - you really think he loved EDM so much it made him abandon the race sound he was so famous for? Same with SHM.
You sell out, you make money but don't expect to be able to make it back to credibility any time soon.
How do I know this ? One of my mates works for Three Six Zero Group and I've spent 15 years in the entertainment industry. You see the same marketing bull/spin again and again. |
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| Woony |
| To be fair, for a long, long time, even prior to selling out to EDM - Guetta, Tiesto and SHM went about as pop as dance music could get (at the time). In that sense they didn't really sell out, they just updated their sound to whats popular. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Woony
To be fair, for a long, long time, even prior to selling out to EDM - Guetta, Tiesto and SHM went about as pop as dance music could get (at the time). In that sense they didn't really sell out, they just updated their sound to whats popular. |
SHM were cheesey from the outset as a group, but some of the DJ's (angello) was actually a serious and decent producer. Don't forget SHM started out a loose collective of Dj's who happened to be Swedish, and then when the opportunity came that branded it to three guys and let the fromage flow. I'd never say they were underground as individuals, but there was clearly a marked change to cash in.
Guetta - sure, he was always mainstream then went in to full on cash.
But Tiesto - don't agree. I remember seeing him several times in 90's and he was playing pumping trance and was respected as far as that went. His productions were far from "pop" most people outide of dance music didn't know who the he was. He never had a US billboard top 10 until late 2000 by which point the scene in Europe was already in sharp decline. It's a misnomer to say he was pop - he became it and sold out harder than anyone from the 90's scene but then again, he can laugh himself all the way to the bank. |
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| Woony |
Wasn't pumping euro trance the most popular dance music of the late 90s though? It's not like he got famous (although he might have at some point, given the sample in Traffic) for playing ing detroit techno, he played that made it to the top of the mainstream charts on several occasions. At least in germany almost everyone outside the trance scene considered these guys horrible sellouts that betrayed the original spirit of techno/rave.
Regardless, he played the ing Olympics in 2004, if that's not selling out then I don't know what is. And that was years before the rise of EDM. |
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| Jon_Snow |
When the scene started out at raves in abandon warehouses and transitioned to clubs and then giant venues the same cry of selling out was also made.
All things go through a stage of obscurity to popularity and then are discarded for the next thing.
Who cares what business model of LV clubs or how much high profile djs makes. Listen what you like and everything else will sort itself out. If you've ever done anything artistic you'd know it's impossible reproduce anything special year after year.
This whole thing goes back to people using music as means show how special they are to others. If you're ever hung out with someone like this you'll know how annoying they are. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
All things go through a stage of obscurity to popularity and then are discarded for the next thing. |
You're talking bull, as ever, IGK. There are countless DJs, musicians and people of all creative paths who've managed to maintain what originally made them great for decades without going to . Their style might change with the times, but that doesn't automatically equate to becoming more calculatingly accessible.
There's nothing more annoying than a DJ or producer or anyone who's creative output you used to revere and rely upon blatantly selling themselves down the river and descending into . Some people just lose their touch and that's understandable because everyone is human, but when someone capable of greatness willingly waters themselves down to make more cash (when they weren't exactly broke to begin with) you have lost a source of musical joy for no better reason than greed.
Granted, none of the DJs being discussed in this thread were any good to begin with and nor were they well-respected, but that's Woony's argument and nothing to do with yours. |
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