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God and Evolution.. (pg. 2)
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| kewlness |
| quote: | Originally posted by speedracer_mec
i think we are living in an era where realization that there isnt no god is taking place...and religion is slowly becoming obselete
any rebuttals? |
We live in a society where people seem to have a lot of faith in science but not "religion." (there's even a religion/cult that basically worships science) The point is, science, just like religion depends on a certain amount of faith. Everybody thought the world was flat before Columbus sailed around the world. The thing with science is that there is also a high level of uncertainty involved with it. Many scientists make assumptions that something is true and make discoveries based on that assumption.
With that said, I have to say that I am a Christian and I definately believe that there is a God. People will ask me, show me the evidence. Well, the thing is, there is no evidence. I could not believe at first that we would exist in this world just like a more highly-evolved and more intelligent species of animals without a purpose in anything. I mean, look at yourself. It is hard to believe that by chance, you "evolved" into what you are today. There has to be something that made everything. The atheist might say then "where did God come from then?". I would respond, that God is eternal and has always existed. This is very hard to imagine as we cannot simply even imagine something that has existed forever. However, we are living in 4 dimensions (3 dimensions (x,y,z) and the 4th dimension (time) ). God is not in any of the dimensions; He is a spirit, not some guy with a lightning bolt sitting on a cloud threatening to strike anyone who is bad.
The thing with Christianity is that it is not by evidence in which you believe. It is by faith that one believes and then after that you will start to feel the evidence of the presence of God. That's how I came to believe. I am not trying to preach, but rather giving a reason for why I believe what I believe.
Please feel free to disagree with me... I got class now, so i'll post some more here later when I get the chance |
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| occrider |
Personally I'm somewhere in between a deist or an agnostic ... probably more so a deist. I think that God may have created or set off the necessary pre-conditions that resulted in the universe's creation, however, I'm a firm believer that every physical object in the universe has a scientific explanation for its existence and for its behaviour. I've more or less discarded the rediculous notion that just because we may not have all the answers or explanations with our current level of understanding than "God did it". Religion has oft been used as a tool to erroneously explain what we did not yet understand. History has shown that religion and ignorance have been frequent bed fellows, and I refuse to fall into that same trap. But when it comes to matters such as our purpose/reason for existence/the ultimate origin of everything that's when I begin to believe that God has some sort of role.
Oh yea ... and I think organized religion is a bunch of hooey that the world would be better off without. |
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| Orbax |
I hear you Speed. Yes, I know God has been there for me in my life. Lots and lots of stuff could have been very different. Ive probably almost died about 40 times. One was a scuba diving accident and I literally shouldnt be alive because thenumbers tell me death is basically imminent at what I was at. So, yeah, I have totally felt God in my life.
I have lots of views on it, like there is a passage in the Bible where God is talking to Peter, whos name is (i forgot spelling) Petre in Greek, which means rock. Which is why he was named Peter...and God tells Peter all of these things about how he wants Christians to be and then says upon this rock I build my church. Catholics took that to mean the literal place they were standing and they consider Peter to be the first Pope or something.
Ive taken it to mean that the Christian church is kinda meant to not be about physical entities and be more about being with people, spreading the Word, and living a good life. With devotions to God thrown in. Christian charity orgs would be more in keeping than a church that took donations in my mind.
So on a Sunday morning you are more likely to find me catching a sunrise on top of a mountain, thanking God ive been blessed with the ability to be there. I have a lot of other quirks and twists that take me away from a mainstream Protestant behavior path, but yeah.
and no #1 if you are a believer in the Bible, it talks about God makes the species immutable and distinct. A lot of Christians think that Evolution could have happened by divine means. Nope. Find a new religion if thats what you think. Bible is clear. and it has some rather staggering implications to the religion if you think that.
#2 (and no im not going to start another debate on this, weve all made up our minds and im sure none are going to change) but basicaly boils down to "if you can find 1 creature that could not have possibly evolved, the theory of evolution doesnt work" and even with puncuated equilibrium ...stupid in idea...there are systems in place that cannot be explained by evolution. |
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| tennessee_raver |
| quote: | Originally posted by UglyDave
i think we should all just be grateful that we're here :) |
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| tor8024 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
As for the religious aspect, I don't know what to believe any more, and frankly, I don't give a damn either. I'm not afraid to die, I don't need to believe in anything, and pondering on existential questions is useless, cos you'll never have any definite answers regardless. So I'll just live my life and see how it goes. Till then religious people's guess are as good as anyone else's on what we are here for, who created us etc. |
couldn't agree more! |
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| Orbax |
| im glad Newton and the Greeks and didnt have that "How could we ever solve this" attitude :P |
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| speedracer_mec |
i mean i myself believe in god..
but i feel like the world doesnt care anymore in this era
care about wut?
their existence |
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| Omegasox |
| quote: | Originally posted by speedracer_mec
and religion is slowly becoming obselete |
Tell that to the billions of people who have religion at the center of their life. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by speedracer_mec
Well in light of this past summer i have gone through hell...literally.
Im goin to take the post to vent about how much i have suffered in this world but yet i continue to push on ahead and look towards the light of god and the music that keeps me going on.
My gf i was dating gave me herpes and clymadia this past summer..right when we decided to settle down. She broke down and fell on her knees for me and begged for forgiveness...
Any other guy would of left but i needed to understand Why?
Why must things like this happen..the feeling of seeing death in its face (possibly catching aids but thank god i didnt)
You see God has been there for me...i feel his prescence in my life..he wants me to change from being an alcoholic and i have. I almost crashed several times in my mustang....but something supernatural has guided me away from death...
im scared everybody..i dont wanna die people....i have cried and been depressed this whole entire year.
My gf is all i got..i cant tell none of my friends wut i have..i have to take more than 1000 pills this year....
But i feel like God is there for me toooo....picking me away from the bad and showing me life can be worse....
I have had problems with my gurl recently...but it has all settled down..to her remorse and true love she has for me. |
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. Life definitely has its twists and turns. I tend to believe through my own experiences (and one recent tragic experience) that a person's character and courage are not determined by their successes, but how that person deals with the real difficulties in life. Those bumps in the road, if you will. There are better days that lie ahead, and you will move on and live a happy, productive life. Don't ever forget that.
| quote: | BUt this brings me to my main topic....do yall believe in a god that has lifted u up away from sadness....
do yall believe in the theory of evolution? [QUOTE]
I see where you are going with these questions, but they are really quite different topics altogether, and are quite mutually exclusive. Believing in a God that lifts one up from sadness does not exclude someone from understanding evolution. You can believe in both - many often do. Believing in God is entirely a matter of faith. There is no belief in evolution, per se. You either understand the principles of evolution which relies upon scientific reasoning and observation based on the facts presented, or you don't.
[QUOTE]some argue the theory of evolution has many flaws and not explaining the supernatural... |
Again, this sentance has two parts and both are completely exclusive of one another. Those who argue of evolution's flaws generally are not able to separate their faith from facts, and also do not understand evolution very well in the first place. The second part, explaining the supernatural, evolution does not try to do, nor does it give a poop about the supernatural. It explains the natural, nothing more.
| quote: | | wut do yall believe and wut does life as we know it boil down to? |
I believe you can believe in anything you wish based upon your own faith. However, based upon facts, evidence tells us it boils down to a long road of billions of years of eventual creation of what life is presently.
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
#2 (and no im not going to start another debate on this, weve all made up our minds and im sure none are going to change) but basicaly boils down to "if you can find 1 creature that could not have possibly evolved, the theory of evolution doesnt work" and even with puncuated equilibrium ...stupid in idea...there are systems in place that cannot be explained by evolution. |
I understand you don't necessarily want to create another debate on this, but this is quite a loaded paragraph and I just couldn't let it go. There are many creatures that haven't really evolved much at all as opposed to others, but that doesn't cause evolution to fall. Could you explain why you think PE is a "stupid in idea?" It explains a great deal of info. about our fossil record. And what systems are you referring to that can't be explained by evolution? To be sure, there are some missing pieces in the fossil record, but what would one expect after billions of years in time? Each piece currently being found slowly but surely fits nicely into what evolution predicts.
Besides, what is the alternative theory? Is it, by chance, the "Goddidit" Theory? Great, can we test that theory? Can we falsify it? Can we show positive evidence for it (as opposed to negative evidence, i.e. attempting to disprove evolutionary pathways)? If the answer is no to these questions (and it is), then it's not much of a scientific theory. |
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| blazed it |
| quote: | Originally posted by kewlness
Everybody thought the world was flat before Columbus sailed around the world. The thing |
this is one of the biggest circulating lies ever.... why do people always quote this stupid line?
people in the middle ages did not believe that the earth was flat (i'm not saying all but in general). |
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| blazed it |
this god is obsolete thing appears to be more frequent among those in western or westernized countries,but it is not limited to them. I am personally agnostic/deist (good one occ I totally forgot this term), I don't care if somebody is religious but i hate when people preach to me about religion because I should have the damn right to believe what the hell i believe in without some foo telling me that i'm wrong or I'm going to hell or some other like that. I mean in the end if i'm wrong then I'm wrong.
I also have beef with organized religion because I believe that once religion is organized it is usually hierachical in nature and I believe that gives too much leeway to be corrupt by the leaders and their ideals----> i.e. the pope being infallible (woo man this one has caused much pain through history) you know it's other people that appoint or proclaim the heads of their own religions ---> such as the cardinals and stuff from the catholic church who vote for whom should be the pope, politics can get into this.
don't mean to pick on catholics mind you, they just have some good examples i can use.
i think i may look into buddhism, it seems less a religion to me than a philosophical outlook on life, you know minus the whole reincarnation bit (i haven' done any research on it yet, but i will) |
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| DJScottKeith |
Good thread, impressed with how mature people are being thus far.
First, if you are curious about evolution etc. I would HIGHLY recommend you check this out: www.drdino.com His (Dr Kent Hovind) DVD set on creation is incredible. He is a Christian Scientiest and basically takes 15+ hours of solid science and facts to debunk evolution and many other myths. Its really interesting too. Also, his material can be copied and distributed for FREE, he purposly has not put a copyright on it for this reason. But if you want a brand new set, you can buy it off his website or listen to his broadcasts. The debates with other scientists and evolutionists are very interesting too. I'm not saying that this DVD set is THE answer to anything, but just a good example of what science exists to prove creation.
I am a Christian and do believe in God. But I dont believe in force feeding others any type of "religion" as it is something that all people need to choose. The concept of Free Will is huge, it frustrates me when people don't acknowledge it. Its good for everyone to ask these questions and look for these answers, for I believe if you look with an unbiased and open heart, you will find the true meaning of life. I have tons of friends who are Christians and many who are not. I learn a great deal from both of them and have a great time with them too. I think the reason why many people in western world are turning to science rather then God is that they want to be in control. Humans who do not believe in or understand God, cannot grasp the concept of His purpose. Thus they feel out of control and lost, where science gives them rules and boundaries which are finite. Keep looking for the answers, you will find them if you really want too. God not only wants to show you that life could be worse, he wants to show you how much your life can be better. |
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