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God and Evolution.. (pg. 22)
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| aspergian |
I know this is really REDUNDANT, but since the conversation here hasn't devolved to the 9th circle of Flaming, I am thankful. A few things I generally keep in mind is stuff like the following:
-can we figure out God? well, can ants figure out us? can we teach birds quantum physics? how come dogs can hear sounds we can't?
-spirituality is personal. one can never fully express his/her/its views. you can try, but all human languages are flawed.
-oh, and for that matter, translating some ideas from, say, ancient Greek and Hebrew comes off really badly in modern tongues. worse than Engrish. really. :)
-with consequently greater levels of intellectualism, the potential opportunities to poke and prod at loopholes increases exponentially. or maybe linearly. but it definitely increases. big words make for big arguments ;)
-"Joan of Arcadia". i recommend it. it's a show about spirituality that isn't narrowminded and doesn't judge. a lot of fun.
-it's human arrogance to try to grasp things they don't even begin to understand. sometimes this is a good arrogance. sometimes, as in the case of religious wars and chomping on cultural differences and rabid imperialism, it is not. :(
-one person's God is another person's Dog.
-one person's "intelligent design" is another person's "Uno!"
-no one ever lost out being a good humanist first. i don't get what's with religious types who are cruel to other people. i don't relate... at ALL. :disbelief
-whatever your beliefs are, if you're nice to me, i'll do my darndest to be nice to you. and if you're not nice to me, it's gonna be harder but i'll still try. that's a promise
-life's hard as it is and there is enough pain and suffering in the world as it stands.
:D |
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| astroboy |
| This thread is not in accordance with the Tao.:p |
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| Slylee |
I don’t really follow any specific religion by the book, however, my beliefs are based upon the fundamentals of Catholicism since that is how I was raised (got my first communion and confirmation in the Catholic church). I guess you could say I believe that there is a God and a son of god who died for our sins. I believe there is a better place after life that goes on for an eternity. There are so many unexplained phenomenons out there that can’t be "coincidental" in my eyes. I believe there is someone watching over us, and "testing" us, so to speak. That is why there are so many temptations out there and evil in the world. I think there are way too many politics in every religion though, so I chose to title myself as "Spiritual". I believe everyone should be forgiving, and I think everyone should just do their part in the world, and try not to sin in a sinful world. I think only truly evil people will suffer in the end...people who don’t want to be forgiven.
As far as evolution is concerned...yes, there have been lots of scientific facts that lead to that theory, but who’s to say that evolution isn’t God’s work?
And for people who go through life claiming that religion and "God" are a bunch of bull and say that they don’t believe in anything like that, are most likely using that as an excuse to lead a life of sin and not feel guilty about it. That’s just my opinion. I think everyone should have God in their life.
I think that yes, our bodies (the physical aspect) die when it’s our time, but we all have "souls" that make up our unique personality. I think our souls leave the body and go wherever they’re supposed to after our bodies die:) |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
I was raised (got my first communion and confirmation in the Catholic church). I guess you could say I believe that there is a God and a son of god who died for our sins. |
You forgot to mention you believe in ghosts 
"The Father, Son and the Holy ghost"
Where did you get your 2nd communion? Is it comparable to a Masters degree? :conf: |
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| Slylee |
| I DO believe in ghosts:p |
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| Orbax |
I think the fundamental problem here is that scientists cant prove or disprove God so they ignore it. It isnt in the realm they deal with. Then religious people say that science proves it. Which isnt true. Secularism has its claims to Big Bang and Evolution. Which are valid claims. Religion has God, Creationism, Guiding Spirits, etc. The issue as far as I have seen it is not from "You should believe what I believe" (although this is sometimes the excuse that is given). It tends to stem from attacking eachothers foundation for the belief.
This book was written by whoever, that animal didnt exist, this number is incorrect.
What people seem to be failing to recognize is that the belief preceeded the explanation. Half of you people seem to ignore the fact that this very question has been debated for several THOUSAND years, and I guarantee you arent thinking of anything so ground breaking that it will cause someone to not believe in God or not believe in Science.
It comes down to "People believe what they believe because that is what they want to believe"
Im not saying that there cant be very strong supports under the belief, but if this was a house if you knocked down all of the walls, the roof would still be floating if you know what I mean.
When you ask people why they believe in God why they REALLY believe it always comes down to "This world is too amazing and I feel too connected to believe that this was all a cosmic dice toss" or something similar. Conversely secularists will say "The idea of some spirit from another dimension somehow creating all life and judging us is ridiculous". In my life I have never heard someone say the core reason for God is that in 1992 gamma ray bursts showed conclusively that... or whatever.
Sometimes the twisting of a statement or someone just posting wildly concocted ideas or logic will bring bursts of annoyances and people start picking apart the stupid that doesnt really matter in the end.
Why do people believe in God? Because they believe in God. You philosophy majors can try to argue that logic as well, but logic doesnt rule human actions in the least bit.
So thats what it comes down to in my mind. Ive talked to a lot of people over the last 5 years and been in many a conversation and thats what it always comes down to.
Now...whether or not we can teach you younguns to be civil about it all and *respect* the conclusion people have come to is the hard part. |
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| Slylee |
| well the basics of religion start with "Faith". that's the whole point of it. so everyone who is bitching to the believers to "prove it", that's defeating the whole purpose. |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
Why do people believe in God? Because they believe in God. |
People believe in god to:
1. Explain the unknown.
2. Give them a purpose in life.
3. Give hope there is life after death.
And the most important reason is we are taught to do so from birth. There isn't any god gene that makes it natural for us to believe in god. |
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| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
And the most important reason is we are taught to do so from birth. There isn't any god gene that makes it natural for us to believe in god. |
of course this is the largest reason that religions are so popular. anything you learned from your parents you should question because chances are...you're smarter then them hehehe... |
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| Orbax |
Also on a sidenote, I believe the reason why science has become the battleground for God these days is because in school we are taught that God is inconsequential (Not that he doesnt exist, because most science teachers have learned to say that science cant prove or disprove it so it isnt dealt with) in this world that is ruled by science. Then there isnt any kind of religious studies or philosophy courses that require a background in that.
The cyclops that our educational system has become is pretty insulting. I love science. If it wasnt for math I would be shooting for a Bachelor of Science degree. But I also am heavy into philosophy and psychology and spiritual studies as well. I think its part of being a well rounded person. You can specialize in something, but should also have a solid base without having to revert to Google every time someone asks you a question.
Anyways. my point is that many people are upset about the one sidedness of education. Seems to put a heavy emphasis on being secular. and with school until college being a baby sitter, and many parents working, the schools are raising the kids, not the parents, and thus not necessarily being imbued with the value system the parents wish.
I just find it disturbing that people really arent being given enough information to make their own choices. For all the people screaming about free choice and the government needs to back off, I find it slightly ironic they dont do to change the fundamental component of the system.
As I see it people can either stop ting out kids they cant afford, or take the time to raise their kids the way they want WITH enough time in there to make that a realistic goal. I just dont think it would be that big of a deal after that. I have had to write papers on evolution and yada yada but you can always throw in some of the criticisms or whatever as well. It usually makes for a better paper to be aware of the potential flaws in your arguments instead of having someone else point them out anway. Didn't bother me though. Ive had to write on stupider subjects. Much stupider. You dont see anyone bitching about how wrong it is to write about House on Mango Street or some other bull "contemporary" classic.
The focus on liberal, poorly written, racially loaded books with *if youre lucky* homosexuality and paganism thrown in is messed up. But that is a totally different rant hehe.
I think it stems from the shadows on the cave wall idea and both sides are trying to show that there is another reality outside, and both refuse to even take a look. |
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| Orbax |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
People believe in god to:
1. Explain the unknown.
2. Give them a purpose in life.
3. Give hope there is life after death.
And the most important reason is we are taught to do so from birth. There isn't any god gene that makes it natural for us to believe in god. |
Whatever your reason from 1, 2, or 3 are you saying its a bad thing they should stop and "come around" to the secular camp?
I also believe that people choose from category 4, 5, 6 and beyond by having life experiences that can only be explained to them by God or they suddenly feel a connection that they can only define as God. Or something. I think boiling God down to a "people are lonely and lost they need a guiding friend" is a rather insulting perspective on the human condition. |
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| Slylee |
| orbax, do you believe in god or science? i can't tell...i also couldn't read everything in the thread cuz i just tuned in and don't really feel like reading it all. |
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