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God and Evolution.. (pg. 6)
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| Orbax |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
This comment, I do not like.
How is "I read it in a science book" any better than "I read it in the bible?"
Or possibly, "I read it in the bible and confirmed it in the debunked 'research' papers of religious scientists?"
You're actually trying to liken education to ignorance. Unbelievable. I'm ALL for questioning the things one learns/hears/reads/sees, but I think that comment was a little over the top. "Science books" are far more credible sources than "religious books."
I have a philosophical question for everyone, and I want you to seriously think about it:
Do you think you would have come up with the idea of God, independently, if you hadn't gotten it from organized religion? |
well if you read the whole thing instead of the parts you want to respond to, I was merely using it as an example. I said people basing life decisions on no research is foolish and ignorant. Read harder, grasshopper. |
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| kewlness |
ok... personally, i am not interested in the creation/evolution debate and don't find it that important.
I think the main thing that needs to be focused on is whether the existence of God is real or false.
Proving the existence of God, can NEVER BE DONE. You simply can't prove it. God doesn't have ANY proof of His existence for a reason. He wants you to make a choice. This is the main thing in believing in God; you don't believe because you have evidence that He exists. You choose to believe because you have faith in His existence. I could write a 5000 word essay on trying to prove that God exists and I would bet that absolutely NO ONE will believe just because they read my essay. Christians aren't trying to prove that what believe is true; if that is the basis of our beliefs, then NO ONE will believe.
Let me give you a story of how I decided to believe in God. Like a lot of you, I was brought up with Christian beliefs and went to Church and a lot of that. As I grew up into my teens, I started doubting everything that had been spoonfed into my mouth. Then I found trance music and was saved (LOL, j/k ignore that last sentence.) But I was really struggling during my teen years with what the purpose of my existence was. There was absolutely no proof of God existing and I felt like I was worshiping some "Jesus" guy and I thought that was pretty BS. A couple years ago though, I went to a seminar thing, and I have forgotten everything that I heard there, except that I should believe in God by faith instead of by evidence. I started doing that, first few weeks it felt like I was praying to nothing. Then I remember once, I started really liking this girl and I asked her out, and got totally rejected and humiliated. That caused me to go through about a half-year depression phase. I was so sad and depressed, it was such a bad time in my life. I started crying to God for help, and I found that I was actually starting to feel better because I realised that I needed to have a dependency on God. My faith in God grew stronger and I found out that the more I depended on God to guide me through life, the more God was revealing Himself to me. And I have counted on God to guide me through my life ever since.
Ok, from my long story, basically the point is, God does not reveal Himself to you. You have to look for Him, and only then will you truly find God. God won't open the door unless you knock. A lot of people try to either find the answers to their life, and/or think that if God truly existed, then He would just by some means of divine intervention, tell you that He existed. That is not the POINT OF WHY WE BELIEVE! I looked for God and I had faith in Him that He existed, and only then, did I truly find God.
Hope I wasn't too preachy again...
And finally, great thread!!! Much better than those "OMG, I want to buttsecks _______ " or "I had sex with my showerhead" lol... Even though they can be entertaining at times ;) |
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| netw3rkd |
there is no god
you just think that so you will feel better
im not trying to sound bad to you or anything, because we all have our believes, but i dont believe there is a god
if there was, would he / she let me be addicted to meth? or suffer extremly from 9823743 disorders?
meh whatever :D |
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| Orbax |
| quote: | Originally posted by netw3rkd
if there was, would he / she let me be addicted to meth? or suffer extremly from 9823743 disorders?
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Do you really want the answer to that ;) |
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| netw3rkd |
i know it would be yes, cos if i were a jesus freak, id be a sinner
:disbelief |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
well if you read the whole thing instead of the parts you want to respond to, I was merely using it as an example. I said people basing life decisions on no research is foolish and ignorant. Read harder, grasshopper. |
Yes, the classic answer from the stubborn, "read more carefully."
I read your post. In its entirety. Frankly, I think you understand very little about evolution and the other things you argue against, and that's why I think it's hypocritical of you to be telling people not to base their decisions on accepted facts and theories (i.e. in science books) but rather on grandiose storytelling, rhetoric, and logical fallacies (the bible and the work of most Christian Scientists).
Yes, I see that you have a few references. Sadly, you seem to be inflicted with a very severe confirmation bias on this issue.
You claim to be accepting of other people's beliefs and not want to start any arguments, and yet in all of your posts related to this issue, I can sense a thinly veiled sense of superiority in your tone, like so many other "devout" people do. I wonder why that's such a common trait? Regardless of the reason, that's why I posted that thing about Buddhism above - it's the only religion that doesn't try to assert its superiority over other belief systems. |
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| occrider |
I knew MisterOpus would be drawn to this thread like a fly to honey :). At any rate, like I said, despite my insane opposition to the church I myself belief in a God. I don't believed in catholocism (raised), I don't believe in the bible, I don't even necessarily believe in Jesus, but I DO believe in a God of some kind that we are incapable of knowing anything about.
But what irritates me FIRST and foremost, are the people who think that we are created in God's own image. What kind of ed up arrogant mentality is that??? It's the same type of as geocentric theory. |
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| montie |
| quote: | Originally posted by kewlness
ok... personally, i am not interested in the creation/evolution debate and don't find it that important.
I think the main thing that needs to be focused on is whether the existence of God is real or false.
Proving the existence of God, can NEVER BE DONE. You simply can't prove it. God doesn't have ANY proof of His existence for a reason. He wants you to make a choice. This is the main thing in believing in God; you don't believe because you have evidence that He exists. You choose to believe because you have faith in His existence. I could write a 5000 word essay on trying to prove that God exists and I would bet that absolutely NO ONE will believe just because they read my essay. Christians aren't trying to prove that what believe is true; if that is the basis of our beliefs, then NO ONE will believe.
Let me give you a story of how I decided to believe in God. Like a lot of you, I was brought up with Christian beliefs and went to Church and a lot of that. As I grew up into my teens, I started doubting everything that had been spoonfed into my mouth. Then I found trance music and was saved (LOL, j/k ignore that last sentence.) But I was really struggling during my teen years with what the purpose of my existence was. There was absolutely no proof of God existing and I felt like I was worshiping some "Jesus" guy and I thought that was pretty BS. A couple years ago though, I went to a seminar thing, and I have forgotten everything that I heard there, except that I should believe in God by faith instead of by evidence. I started doing that, first few weeks it felt like I was praying to nothing. Then I remember once, I started really liking this girl and I asked her out, and got totally rejected and humiliated. That caused me to go through about a half-year depression phase. I was so sad and depressed, it was such a bad time in my life. I started crying to God for help, and I found that I was actually starting to feel better because I realised that I needed to have a dependency on God. My faith in God grew stronger and I found out that the more I depended on God to guide me through life, the more God was revealing Himself to me. And I have counted on God to guide me through my life ever since.
Ok, from my long story, basically the point is, God does not reveal Himself to you. You have to look for Him, and only then will you truly find God. God won't open the door unless you knock. A lot of people try to either find the answers to their life, and/or think that if God truly existed, then He would just by some means of divine intervention, tell you that He existed. That is not the POINT OF WHY WE BELIEVE! I looked for God and I had faith in Him that He existed, and only then, did I truly find God.
Hope I wasn't too preachy again...
And finally, great thread!!! Much better than those "OMG, I want to buttsecks _______ " or "I had sex with my showerhead" lol... Even though they can be entertaining at times ;) |
i've heard this alot about how you "have to look for god" for him to reveal himself to you. while there may be some arguements for this like you tried to point out, if god doesn't exist (i'm not denying the existence of god, just trying to point this out), well then of course god isn't gonna exist unless you "let him reveal" himself too you because by "looking for god" you are creating the existence of a god in your own emotional life. when you seek god, you have a goal of finding something to fulfill some emptyness in your life. you can tell yourself this god exists to fill this emptyness and you will hold on to this belief and feelings that it exists to fill this emptyness. |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
You claim to be accepting of other people's beliefs and not want to start any arguments, and yet in all of your posts related to this issue, I can sense a thinly veiled sense of superiority in your tone, like so many other "devout" people do. ...Buddhism it's the only religion that doesn't try to assert its superiority over other belief systems. |
I agree with you. I was going to take Orbax to task on his anti intellectual/creationist remarks but choose not to cause I doubt any logical argument would have any impact.
I gotta laugh when I hear creationists and religious zealots favorite fall back position, the old claim that you can't disprove that god exists. While this may be true, I'd love to see how accepting they would be of a person who believed in a pagan religion. You can't disprove the sun god Ra or the Greek god Zeus doesn't exist can you so they must really exist too. :rolleyes:
Look I believe in the Christian one god but that's only because I was raised to believe that, it didn’t come naturally to me. If you grew up in ancient Egypt, guess what you would believe in their pagan gods. Bottom line all religions are man made and have to be accepted on faith. So think long and hard about that next time you want dispute scientific theories or say you can just feel that God truly exists.
Ok im going to bed. God bless everyone. :p
ps I just remembered some funny phrase back in college that someone has lost an argument when the envoke either god or hitler to prove their point. :stongue: |
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| montie |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
But what irritates me FIRST and foremost, are the people who think that we are created in God's own image. What kind of ed up arrogant mentality is that??? It's the same type of as geocentric theory. |
i grew up in a catholic background also, altho i'm not a technical catholic anymore. what i was tought tho that being created in gods image means that we were created to be concious of our existance and think and have the ability to love which is what god is (according to catholic theology). the reason we have imprefections is because of free will and our fall which is supposed to be explained by the story of adam and eve |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by montie
i grew up in a catholic background also, altho i'm not a technical catholic anymore. what i was tought tho that being created in gods image means that we were created to be concious of our existance and think and have the ability to love which is what god is (according to catholic theology). the reason we have imprefections is because of free will and our fall which is supposed to be explained by the story of adam and eve |
Ah I see ... so we are the only sentient beings in this universe that are capable of being conscious of our existence :rolleyes: (not directed at you). I love how organized religion works, we are God's creation yet we are God's "special" creation. Modeled from the supreme being "him"self, therefore differentiating us from each and every one of God's less than "special" creations. One would hope God would be slightly more egalitarian right? Well what can I say ... humans are real peices of work. |
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