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God and Evolution.. (pg. 23)
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| Orbax |
Ive been a Christian for about four years now. I was raised with religion generically, but in eleventh grade I started thinking about life and what not and decided to get educated on a variety of different beliefs. Christianity (lit: Little Christ) seemed to click with me. I've been a much happier calmer person the further I have progressed. It has given me goals to work towards and so forth. Im in the camp of having my life changed by Christ. It took my anger and hate away, but I had to ask for it. I've been very pleased with my relationship with God.
I am not a church going Christian (not many younguns are these days) but the way I see it, a church should be a place where an educated Christian and an uneducated Christian can get the same thing out of it: community and fellowship. Church these days seems to be a big Bible study. and then you leave.
I want to get to know people better. However, the local churches have no college age groups for me to join and the nearest one that does is an hour away. So more often than not Ill climb a mountain and catch a sunrise and thank God for everything there instead of church.
I also love science. It explains much of this universe to us and gives us great hope and opportunity for betterment. The more I know the more I am amazed. Its brain candy and, to me, makes me realize what a genius the Creator is. The first thing I think to myself when I see stuff on micro levels is "man this thing looks designed". Which is a logical fallacy and all, but thats what I think.
Pretty much the only bone I have to pick with science is that people try to use it to disprove God...which totally doesnt make sense.
Personally I believe they go hand in hand, and that any kind of understanding about who, what ,when,where, and why we are here can do nothing but bring us closer to God, our Creator.
My unifying philosophy behind science and contemporary religion and God and everything is rather long winded and digresses into many areas, so I think Ill just leave it as what Ive said thus far hehe. |
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| Slylee |
so you are kinda like a born again christian?
i'm sorta like you, only i'm not as educated about the different religions...and i suck at any sort of high school/college level math. math and science go hand in hand, so i'm not too bright when it comes to those subjects. i'm always fascinated by them though. i'm better at english comp/writing and psychology, or anything that has to do with human behavior and understanding it. |
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| arctic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
well the basics of religion start with "Faith". that's the whole point of it. so everyone who is bitching to the believers to "prove it", that's defeating the whole purpose. |
That pretty much sums up my problem with Christianity. If you don't base your beliefs on the evidence - then you really shouldn't hold those beliefs. As soon as you're required to have 'faith', IMO you should leave that belief behind. Faith is pretty much believing something without having any evidence to back it up - and in my mind, that's never a good thing.
You could have faith that children are in fact demons from another realm, and that it’s your duty to immediately slaughter them. Absurd, yes – but it would be just as valid as Christianity if all it has to rest on is blind faith.
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
As far as evolution is concerned...yes, there have been lots of scientific facts that lead to that theory, but who’s to say that evolution isn’t God’s work? |
Absolutely nothing, hell - even the RCC accepts evolution, and they're notoriously slow when it comes to science (Galileo anyone?). :p
| quote: | | And for people who go through life claiming that religion and "God" are a bunch of bull and say that they don’t believe in anything like that, are most likely using that as an excuse to lead a life of sin and not feel guilty about it. That’s just my opinion. I think everyone should have God in their life. |
Come on, that's an absurd thing to say. Ever thought that perhaps they don't believe in god because they simply don't think he exists? Just as you believe, they disbelieve. You also seem to be implying that atheists all deliberately lead lives of sin. Firstly, it's important to note that sin is a Christian concept, and as such - people who don't believe in god in India for instance (where the main religions are Jainism, Sikhism & Hinduism) probably don't even know what sin is, so I don't know how they could not believe in god to avoid something they don't even know exists. Humanism is another pertinent example - assuming that you know what it is, in what way are avowed humanists in any way evil or 'sinful'?
Many atheists are far more moral than Christians - any suggestion to the contrary should be backed up by the evidence - sadly, they generally aren't.
But yeah, isn't this an ancient thread? What's with the resurrection? :conf: |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by arctic
But yeah, isn't this an ancient thread? What's with the resurrection? :conf: |
Yeah I find it annoying losers have no original ideas of their own bump up ancient threads. Only god knows why ;)
btw, good post glad you said it. I don't like to waste my time arguing with faith based ppl because its impossible to have a meaningful discussion with someone who rejects logic. |
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| Slylee |
Sorry, I didn't realize it was an old thread. I don't exactly read the dates on all of them. and don't u guys flame people for posting stuff that has alredy been discussed? which is it?? lol
I didn't mean to generalize and say that all atheists are sinful. I know a lot of them have morals and stuff. That's just my opinion on the few that I have actually met. I think some people who reject religion are intimidated by the fact that there is a higher power and that we have to actually be good people and not just do whatever the hell we want in life. Of course there are the ones who just don't believe in it...simple as that.
I'm not going to go back and forth, because this is just something I chose to believe in, I'm not trying to force anyone to believe it either.
And I'm sure as hell not going to sit here and act like I am better or above the people in here who don't believe in religion, or get annoyed that they are "rejecting faith". |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
Sorry, I didn't realize it was an old thread. I don't exactly read the dates on all of them. and don't u guys flame people for posting stuff that has alredy been discussed? which is it?? lol |
There are no hard and fast rules but bumping up old threads is an annoying theme that has been gaining momentum this year. It's stupid to resurrect a giant, ancient thread where the majority of the members who participtated in it are no longer active. What's the point who's going to read through 14 pages of posts from ppl the don't know? Sure posting a new Headphone thread every week can get a little redundent, but bumping old up, takes the cake. |
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| tiesto14 |
I do beleive in God (NOT the Bible's God)...i am a Deist.
I just can not fathom how educated people in the 21st century still beleive in the Bible. This is a book littered with murder, rape, slavery, incest, child abuse, child killings, monsters, goblins, ghosts, people walking on water and splitting seas, snakes that eat dust, the devil, angels, eating your children, mass murder, child abuse, burning people, chopping off heads, hands, feet, ears, plucking out eyes. torture, damnation, Jesus being born without a natural father (virgin birth), resurections, the second coming, the world ending, in a battle at Armageddon between Christ and the Antichrist, dragons, unicorns, fiery serpents, the supernatural and countless other absurd, and for the most deranged, things...all of this in by God.
Sorry but “MY” God (who is not the Bible God) is incapable of such misery producing acts as the extermination of men, women, children and I do not attribute human qualities to God and reject those teachings that depicts our Creator as a homicidal maniac who drowns the world in floods (Genesis), kills children just to punish somebody else (Exodus), or presents our Creator as a fool to be outwitted by a mythical serpent. I have more logic and reason then that.
I mean would you still believe the Bible if it said a 3 legged leprachaun gave birth to a smurf, so to slay the dragons in the moat around satan’s home?…In all seriousness if you ACTUALLY read the Bible and stop being sheep you WILL see just how profoundly insane one must be to actually believe what they are reading, with all of the education available. One would simply have to be so blinded by unquestioning faith not to believe (which is sillyin the first place) or be in a state with absolute no logic and reason.
“Religion easily has the greatest bull story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull story. Holy !
I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood.”
-- George Carlin
"Faith is believing in what you know ain't true."
--Mark Twain
"It appears to me that all churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Muslim, are simply human inventions. They use fear to enslave us. They are a monopoly for power and profit."
--Thomas Paine |
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| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
I do beleive in God (NOT the Bible's God)...i am a Deist.
I just can not fathom how educated people in the 21st century still beleive in the Bible. This is a book littered with murder, rape, slavery, incest, child abuse, child killings, monsters, goblins, ghosts, people walking on water and splitting seas, snakes that eat dust, the devil, angels, eating your children, mass murder, child abuse, burning people, chopping off heads, hands, feet, ears, plucking out eyes. torture, damnation, Jesus being born without a natural father (virgin birth), resurections, the second coming, the world ending, in a battle at Armageddon between Christ and the Antichrist, dragons, unicorns, fiery serpents, the supernatural and countless other absurd, and for the most deranged, things...all of this in by God.
Sorry but “MY” God (who is not the Bible God) is incapable of such misery producing acts as the extermination of men, women, children and I do not attribute human qualities to God and reject those teachings that depicts our Creator as a homicidal maniac who drowns the world in floods (Genesis), kills children just to punish somebody else (Exodus), or presents our Creator as a fool to be outwitted by a mythical serpent. I have more logic and reason then that.
I mean would you still believe the Bible if it said a 3 legged leprachaun gave birth to a smurf, so to slay the dragons in the moat around satan’s home?…In all seriousness if you ACTUALLY read the Bible and stop being sheep you WILL see just how profoundly insane one must be to actually believe what they are reading, with all of the education available. One would simply have to be so blinded by unquestioning faith not to believe (which is sillyin the first place) or be in a state with absolute no logic and reason.
“Religion easily has the greatest bull story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull story. Holy !
I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood.”
-- George Carlin
"Faith is believing in what you know ain't true."
--Mark Twain
"It appears to me that all churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Muslim, are simply human inventions. They use fear to enslave us. They are a monopoly for power and profit."
--Thomas Paine |
first let me say that i agree with a lot of what you just said as i'm not religious at all, but the religious response to what you just said would be that the bible is not a TRUE story, but an alegory meant to teach those that follow it. |
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| arctic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
I didn't mean to generalize and say that all atheists are sinful. I know a lot of them have morals and stuff. That's just my opinion on the few that I have actually met. I think some people who reject religion are intimidated by the fact that there is a higher power and that we have to actually be good people and not just do whatever the hell we want in life. Of course there are the ones who just don't believe in it...simple as that. |
That's fine. Interestingly, my experiences have been the complete opposite to yours - most of the nutters and people who I honestly can't stomach have been Christians or Muslims - the atheists I’ve met have generally been great people. When it comes down to it though, you get idiots who believe in god and idiots who don't - it's a mixed bag on both sides of the fence. There are different 'types' of atheists, just as there are different types of theists. Try comparing an objectivist to an atheist Buddhist, or a fundamentalist Muslim to a Hindu like Ghandi. I suppose I’m just trying to say that generalizations usually fail - even when I’m the one making them. :p
This is pretty much what I believe/adhere to if you or anyone else is interested.
| quote: | | And I'm sure as hell not going to sit here and act like I am better or above the people in here who don't believe in religion, or get annoyed that they are "rejecting faith". |
Likewise, I’ve usually got no issue with religious people or religion in general - I only get riled up when people try and pass legislation that's based on their religious beliefs (banning gay marriage, banning stem cell research etc). |
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| Floorfiller |
| all i've ever wanted was for someone to give me a good reason to believe in religion other then faith. it's impossible. faith is such a cop out. i didn't read this whole thread because it's waaaaay too long, but in all the threads like this i've participated in, never can any religious person give me a good reason...it always comes back to faith. which leads me to believe that if the only justification you have for your beliefs is a faith learned from childhood, then how can you not question them? |
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| Slylee |
| quote: | Originally posted by arctic
Likewise, I’ve usually got no issue with religious people or religion in general - I only get riled up when people try and pass legislation that's based on their religious beliefs (banning gay marriage, banning stem cell research etc). |
just to set the record straight, in no way am i "religious". i just happen to be aware of God and i'm pretty spiritual. i sin every day, but i try to be a good person. "sin" meaning pre marital sex with my boyfriend, white lies, smoke pot...the usual. i'm not a bad person though, just a product of society like all of us. i try to rise above most of the every day sins that people do unconciously, like greed, resentment, envy...all of those every day feelings are considered a sin. like to me, a guy who is rich enough to buy a small country, yet keeps buying porsches, is a sin. you gotta do your part somehow. |
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| Orbax |
| quote: | Originally posted by arctic
Many atheists are far more moral than Christians - any suggestion to the contrary should be backed up by the evidence |
So should the original statement ^_^
Point is people are people. Religion helps a lot of people who would typically follow their baser/negative instincts/feelings reject them. Sometimes its annoying. Some of my (ex)friends wouldnt watch movies over PG-13 because the depictions in it were "wrong". Extremism disgusts me.
I agree that an atheist/secularist can be just as, if not more, moral than someone "who believe in God". Point is, even the devils and Satan himself believe in God. Its what you do with the knowledge that counts.
This next statement isnt really for arguing, again its just a belief that ive come to (also I read CS Lewis "Mere Christianity" and "The Abolition of Man" and was blown away):
The Moral Law is the same as the Law of Gravity. I.E., Whether or not you believe in its existence, it is still something that is obeyed. Ideas of Right and Wrong are generally held universal. Moral Relativism can suck it :D
So with that being said, whether or not you are a "good person" has nothing to do with your beliefs. The divergence in belief comes to the whole "Judgment" thing. An atheist will think that rape is bad just like a Jew. But* The Jew thinks that by not doing it he will go to Heaven. That is in addition to him already thinking its wrong due to the Moral Law.
So, technically, a religious type should have MORE motivation to not do things considered "wrong".
My problem is that most people use forgiveness as a Get Out of Jail Free card...except there is infinite of them. The whole key to the Forgiveness thing is Repentence, however. And to try and pull a fast one on the All Knowing/All Powerful one is calling your God stupid...and you believe in Him??
I have a lot of problems with a lot of people and codified religions and beliefs. They lead to extremism, stagnation, and unwillingness.
In religion, one should find themself anew, and grow. Not petrify into a mold made several thousand years ago. To believe that God doesnt understand change and time and human progress...Hey Zeus Christo. What a morbidly depressing religion that would be.
Most people don't even know Im Christian unless they see my cross or ask me. I have a reputation as being "One of the good guys, someone you can come to if you need help, no matter what". Eventually we have a discussion on my belief system, mainly because Ill bring it up if Im pissed at how you are treating a woman or something. Sometimes it helps them, sometimes it doesnt. Find your own way.
I think one of the most important things you can do in your life is become an independent thinker, something many people fail to do. Seperate rant though, goes into character and will ;)
done for now |
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