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trance argument (pg. 5)
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| Assassin |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
you don't read the posts... 20 to 30 than the usual crowd the club attracts on any given night. |
Now you are really trying hard to make an argument.
The amount of people over an above a regular night that a Guest DJ brings in is called the DJ's drawing power. When a DJ draws 30 people, it means that DJ brings in 30 people who want to see that particular DJ perform. I figure you would know that with your supposed unlimited knowledge about the clubbing world.
I ask you, how many times have you gone to a party in the last year that had international trance DJs as headliners where no more than 300 people came? I would like to know the name of the DJ and the capacity of the club. For your argument to hold any validity, I must see a list of at least 3 names. Otherwise my point is unarguable. |
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| Sean Walsh |
| quote: | Originally posted by Assassin
What DJs have come to montreal and only drew 20-30 people? They obviously werent promoted well enough to get good numbers, otherwise I would have heard about it. |
I was talking about Vancouver, not Montreal. Either way, how many people do you think have truly heard of Filo & Peri, or John O'Callaghan, or other young exploding producers/DJs like that? I'd wager to say names of this size wouldn't bring out more than 50-75 more people than normal on a night at Aria.
Greg, props for trying to make a difference. I was in the same boat as you for a long time, but honestly promotion is a business that just takes so much effort for such little reward that I'd never really consider getting involved in it again. Throwing Steve Porter last NYE in vancouver was one of the most stressful undertakings of my life. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Assassin
I ask you, how many times have you gone to a party in the last year that had international trance DJs as headliners where no more than 300 people came? I would like to know the name of the DJ and the capacity of the club. For your argument to hold any validity, I must see a list of at least 3 names. Otherwise my point is unarguable. |
your question is a trick, you're talking about international trance dj and then spurt names like filo and peri and above & beyond... they're far less international than you might believe.
ok nights with trance djs out of montreal with small attendances:
gabriel dresden <-- very low attendance...
Guy Ornadel < -- the latter times he showed up, very little attendance
dj micro <---- i even started a thread about the lack of attention from TAs here: http://www2.tranceaddict.com/forums...threadid=124829
johan gielen has brought in very little attendance too... |
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| Assassin |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
your question is a trick, you're talking about international trance dj and then spurt names like filo and peri and above & beyond... they're far less international than you might believe.
ok nights with trance djs out of montreal with small attendances:
gabriel dresden <-- very low attendance...
Guy Ornadel < -- the latter times he showed up, very little attendance
dj micro <---- i even started a thread about the lack of attention from TAs here: http://www2.tranceaddict.com/forums...threadid=124829
johan gielen has brought in very little attendance too... |
Gabriel & Dresden - Not trance, but I think there was more than 300 people there.
Guy Ornadel - December 2003, more than 300 people there. And he is probably cheaper than a 300 breakeven.
DJ Micro - August 2003, more than a year ago and most likely is cheaper than a 300 breakeven.
Johan Gielen - May 2004, more than 500 people there. He is more expensive, so his breakeven is higher.
So, theres still no nights you have been to with international (international = not from Canada) trance DJs with less than a 300 capacity.
Would you say the club lost money on all those nights?
Do you think they would have made more money had it been a residents only night? This is the key question that only one person on this forum can answer.
It would be cool to be able to rent out a club like Aria and just bring in whoever you want. |
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| malek |
dude!!! do you think 300 or even 400 people is enough to run a club big like aria??
the core number of people that show at aria every night even if there's a thunderstorm outside and with no headliners is 300-400. And thats waaaaay below capacity, of around 1800.
So thats why its not a good idea for aria and other big clubs to book these smaller trance guys.
The problem is that there's no ideally sized (500-700) club in montreal who books edm on a regular basis (except stereo). |
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| DJ Charlie |
all this is going nowhere
Go to the freaking club you want and don't go to where you don't.
Go to the freaking event you want and don't go to where you don't.
Listen to the music and djs you want and don't listen the ones you don't.
PERIOD
We don't want to know your opinions on that type of things and it has been said a million time.
you want to tell your opinions ? wait for a review thread of something YOU WENT AT, so your opinion could count ! |
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| Assassin |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
dude!!! do you think 300 or even 400 people is enough to run a club big like aria??
the core number of people that show at aria every night even if there's a thunderstorm outside and with no headliners is 300-400. And thats waaaaay below capacity, of around 1800.
So thats why its not a good idea for aria and other big clubs to book these smaller trance guys.
The problem is that there's no ideally sized (500-700) club in montreal who books edm on a regular basis (except stereo). |
Okay, Ill ask you the question. Do you think the club would have made more money if they had a residents night instead of having said guest DJs play? This is something that can actually be answered by showing average attendance over a 12 month period for reident nights and compare it to the attendance of each of the nights you listed. If the difference in revenue is greater than the booking fee of the guest DJ, then my point is 100% valid.
If you want to take it to another level, you can take 4 DJs in the last year from other genres with similar booking fees and country of origin and compare it to the numbers you get from the trance DJs. This would be something I would like to do, as it would give me a better understanding of the Montreal scene and if its being taken in the right direction. Do you know where I can get attendance stats for Aria for each night in the last year?
Remember, Im not saying Aria doesnt book trance. Ive never said that, contrary to what people seem to think. Im just wondering why a city like Montreal with the "best night life in Canada" and is widely considered the most European city in North America isnt as accepting to a certain style of music when it has been proved over and over again that it can succeed.
Are there even any weekly trance nights in Montreal? Like, any clubs or bars that have resident DJs who play trance...doesnt have to be afterhours or anything. Maybe this is something that should be looked at, and can be a building block to bigger things. |
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| KrinKer |
not as accepting ??
r u nuts ??
There's been More trance at aria since january than techno .. and aria is known to be a techno club
There's been more little parties with trance headliner than any other ( ... the only time that house is clearly represented in a party is @ Beb, Black N blue, Celebration and Cream )
There's more in trance outsiders ( dj speaking )than techno outsiders in the city ... DO YOU HEAR ALL THE TECHNO ADDICT BITCHIN ABOUT IT ??
Let's just face it, for clubs the size of aria ... there aren't that much dj that can Breakeven ...
and btw ... when you see 6-700 ppl in a club ... it doesn't meen that they all payed ... my gues i that not even half of them payed, and half of those who payed had reduce ...
KrinKer |
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| DJ Charlie |
fine...
Montreal has the worst nightlife in Canada.
Get out of town ! |
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| Assassin |
| quote: | Originally posted by KrinKer
not as accepting ??
r u nuts ??
There's been More trance at aria since january than techno .. and aria is known to be a techno club
There's been more little parties with trance headliner than any other ( ... the only time that house is clearly represented in a party is @ Beb, Black N blue, Celebration and Cream )
There's more in trance outsiders ( dj speaking )than techno outsiders in the city ... DO YOU HEAR ALL THE TECHNO ADDICT BITCHIN ABOUT IT ??
Let's just face it, for clubs the size of aria ... there aren't that much dj that can Breakeven ...
and btw ... when you see 6-700 ppl in a club ... it doesn't meen that they all payed ... my gues i that not even half of them payed, and half of those who payed had reduce ...
KrinKer |
ok, are you serious? Theres been more trance than techno at Aria? How many times has Yaz or Preach played there? What kind of music do they play? I dont think its trance. I dont know anyone who would disagree with that. Ive only been to Aria 3 times this year (Ferry, Gielen, and Armin). I think the only trance act I missed was Tiesto, and thats because he doesnt play much trance anymore. Are you saying Yaz and Preach have played less than that?
And I dont hear the techno addicts bitching because they can hear techno at Aria pretty much every week. I wish I could be in that situation. That would be a dream come true. IMO they are the most catered to crowd at Aria and I still hear a little bit bitching on these forums.
If there arent many DJs that breakeven at Aria, then why is it open every week? Wouldnt it only open when they know they will make money? I wouldnt open twice a week knowing im losing money most of the time. Hell, the hip hop room alone would probably keep the club alive.
Of course Im talking about paying customers...thats how you make money.
What point are you trying to prove? Or what point of mine are you trying to dis-prove?
edit: if this post makes it seem like im anti-aria you are wrong. I have never said anywhere that I didnt like Aria. I know its the only place that will book trance, and for that I am thankful. Its just that everyone else keeps bringing up this club even though Im talking about an entire city. |
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| KrinKer |
Headliner Speaking ... there'es been mon Trance headliner than techno headliners,
I know you're not anti-aria
But what i'm trying to make u understand is that Jfl cannot book smaller dj's ... even in bigger night ... it's 5-6000 that he can't spend right now, I'll give you an example ( the same one i gave to alec ... and to my surprise he was intelligent enought to catch want i ment ;) lol )
Let's look @ Grand prix Week-end this year
And the year before that
two years ago Guy Ornadel + Tiesto + Armin ... We can both agree that they all bring in the same kind of crowd, and that armin and tiesto both full the club, so once ( let's say 2000 ppl ) are in the club ( all trance fans ) no Tech heads, or househeads will comme to night ... right ??
Now last year, Tiesto Fulls the club by himself ... AND misstress barbara also ... but they bring in a completly different kind of crowd. Tiesto did his thing for his ( let's say 2000 again ) fans ... then ... when he's done ... a part of his fans stays ... AND the Fans of misstress Barbara enters the place ( let's say 1000 )
You can easily see why he doesn't book smaller, "same kind" of music dj, than the headliner.
As Far as smaller acts ...
Montreal ( and all its clubs and small parties ) has had a LOT of trance, Precision, One member from Above & beryond ( Juno to be more precise ), Victor Dinaire, Niklas harding, Misjah Helsoot
Don't tell me that those aren't smaller acts ...
KrinKer |
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| Assassin |
| quote: | Originally posted by KrinKer
Montreal ( and all its clubs and small parties ) has had a LOT of trance, Precision, One member from Above & beryond ( Juno to be more precise ), Victor Dinaire, Niklas harding, Misjah Helsoot
Don't tell me that those aren't smaller acts ...
KrinKer |
Really? I only remember Jono from Above & Beyond coming to a sketchy rave in Sept 2003. And since then, they have blown up huge. Started their own weekly radio show, expanded their Anjunabeats roster, released many bombs, and have played more gigs around the world. When did those other names come? I know Helsloot and Harding played in Quebec, but I never heard a Montreal date. Precision played a LONG time ago, so he doesnt really factor into this discussion.
Oh yeah, and about techno people not bitching: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=217747 :D |
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