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new subway system! (wishful thinking for the TTC, lol) (pg. 3)
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| Crazy Serb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Because the north american dream is the big SUV the 20 room suburban house and the big backyard that nobody uses. |
oh, the irony...
btw, I wouldn't mind paying $10 a day for TTC travel IF that meant I could get anywhere I wanted and back in a decent timespan WITHOUT MUCH waiting time or nerves lost in traffic jams.
As it is right now though, I don't feel like walking for 5 mins to the bus stop just to wait for another 15-20 mins for the bus to come (btw, they are never on schedule around here), and then wait another 10-15 mins for the damn bus to get from Lawrence to Eglinton (Kennedy Subway) while driving 10 km/h since he's too early for his schedule and is taking his time. And then, once on Subway, wait for the goddamn train for another 10 minutes. Why go through all that (20-25 mins at best, 45 mins at worst) when I can just sit in a car, spark it up and cross that same distance in less than 3 minutes for much less money (gas is still pretty affordable)???!!!! |
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| Jayx1 |
In Oakville it takes 45 mins to an hour and $2 each way to get to the mall by bus. It's a 10 min drive and probably less than $1 in fuel. like this has to stop because id be the first person to sell my car, stop paying insurance, repairs, gas and parking if we had decent transit.
I dont buy into the "Must have a car to be cool" concept however around here a car is a must or else you are screwed. |
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| RobbyG. |
Unfortunatly, the previous government set us (the TTC) back several years by not funding public transit (the ONLY transit system not funded by local government in north america at the time) and therefore had to rebuild its old fleet of buses ( I know cause I did that for 4 years).THe Eglinton subway would have been built but was/is mothballed.I do agree with Jay & that the TTC should toss the streetcars because they are not very effecient and none are wheelchair accessable.Today I heard that they are not running because the overhead power lines are frozen:rolleyes: ...
If this country had enough foresight & vision then the politicians would know that a healthy & efficient transit will result in cleaner air & fewer cars on the road & therefore less traffic...less traffic means that goods are delivered on time which saves businesses money...Also cleaner air means less smog which results in fewer absent workers and fewer visits to the hospital & therefore less stress on our healthcare...
There is definitly a huge trickle down effect with a good transit system;) |
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| Jayx1 |
And people walk more too!
Yes that was one of the bad things that harris did. He did a lot of good but cancelling the subway line wasnt one of them. |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
People don't seem to get it... our population is ALREADY triple what our city is actually designed to handle. Given our population, that is exactly what our subway system *should* look like!
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No, I get it perfectly.
Maybe at certain routes such as Eglinton or the Don Mills line (which would really be useful), but if they actually went along and built a subway system like that in Toronto then it'd be a waste of money, mainly because of how that westend is designed. The Lakeshore line would be useless, not that many people use it in the first place...if they had a subway goin there like that then it'd be empty half the time.
Sure, it'd be nice if we all had the subway go to our own doorsteps, but looking at it realistically, at least 2 of those lines wouldn't be needed there. Unless of course, you want to eliminate bus use completely. Then of course, a system like that would be perfect |
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| DigiNut |
A lot of valid points raised, but people are getting caught up in the fine detail and ignoring the fundamentals.
There are three main factors that will decide a person's choice of transportation, and in order of priority they are:
1. Time
2. Comfort
3. Expense
Time is #1. You have to wait for the bus out in the cold/heat. They're slow. It takes an hour and a half to get to and from work. The comfort level on a bus is low too, but even if the buses were redesigned to be super comfy with big screen TVs, nobody would willingly accept a means of transportation that requires a 1½ hour commitment when there is another means that is only a ½-hour commitment. When deciding between a bus and a car, the only limiting factor that would make someone choose a bus is a hard limitation on expense (i.e. they can't afford it).
Subways are different. Especially in the downtown area, subways are actually FASTER than cars because of all the traffic jams. Comfort level is average, there's usually room even in peak times. So that just leaves expense.
For anyone under 30, it costs about $200/mo to finance the cheapest car (we're ignoring the people who buy beaters because most people don't) and rarely less than $3000/yr in insurance as the primary driver. Add about $30/wk minimum in gas and $500/yr in maintenance (oil changes, tire rotations, alignment, minor repairs, etc.). That's roughly $7400 a year, or $20 per day (or $28 if you only count business days), to own and operate a car. And that's a *conservative* estimate.
I submit, therefore, that people would be willing to pay AT LEAST that much per day for a well-designed, comfortable subway system that takes them where they want to go in less than half the time.
Why do we need the city government to make these subway systems? If a corporation can milk even $5000 per year out of 1 million frustrated city drivers, they're bringing in $5 billion in revenues per year! That's HUGE! Surely whatever outrageous figure is attached to building a private subway would pay for itself in no time at all??
And hey - why not make even more money? Put heated parking lots in the subway stations! If I were trying to get downtown, and I could get there in 10 minutes by subway but had to waste 30 minutes getting to the subway station by bus, I would GLADLY shell out a few bucks to park my car at the subway station. At $5 a pop, I'll bet they could pack in at least 1000 cars a day (across ALL the subway stations, not just one). At $5000 a day that's almost another $2 million a year in pocket cash.
Is there ANYONE here who wants to dispute these figures? I'm not a business man, or an economist, I'm sure there's probably something I'm missing, but even if you cut that profit figure down to 1%, it's still a ridiculous amount of revenue! |
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| dallastar |
i used to live in South Korea and their freakin' subway system is VERY comparable. Get lost in transl;ation just going on the subway - - all in a different language and the chances of you finding an english speakin' person to help you are NEXT TO NONE!
NEVER AGAIN!
;) |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dallastar
i used to live in South Korea and their freakin' subway system is VERY comparable. Get lost in transl;ation just going on the subway - - all in a different language and the chances of you finding an english speakin' person to help you are NEXT TO NONE!
NEVER AGAIN!
;) |
Yeah those damned foreigners in other countries that dont speak english ahahahahahhahaha
Im willing to bet that Koreans say the same thing about our subways. "not one person who speaks Korean, never again." Then again, in Toronto anything is possible LOL
That kind of reminds me of when i was in Tijuana Mexico and this American says to me "look at all the foreigners" and i turned to him and the rest of our group and said "where? i only see 4 of us!"
bahahahahha |
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| dallastar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Yeah those damned foreigners in other countries that dont speak english ahahahahahhahaha
Im willing to bet that Koreans say the same thing about our subways. "not one person who speaks Korean, never again." Then again, in Toronto anything is possible LOL
That kind of reminds me of when i was in Tijuana Mexico and this American says to me "look at all the foreigners" and i turned to him and the rest of our group and said "where? i only see 4 of us!"
bahahahahha |
ahahhah:happy2: |
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
A lot of valid points raised, but people are getting caught up in the fine detail and ignoring the fundamentals.
There are three main factors that will decide a person's choice of transportation, and in order of priority they are:
1. Time
2. Comfort
3. Expense
Time is #1. You have to wait for the bus out in the cold/heat. They're slow. It takes an hour and a half to get to and from work. The comfort level on a bus is low too, but even if the buses were redesigned to be super comfy with big screen TVs, nobody would willingly accept a means of transportation that requires a 1½ hour commitment when there is another means that is only a ½-hour commitment. When deciding between a bus and a car, the only limiting factor that would make someone choose a bus is a hard limitation on expense (i.e. they can't afford it).
Subways are different. Especially in the downtown area, subways are actually FASTER than cars because of all the traffic jams. Comfort level is average, there's usually room even in peak times. So that just leaves expense.
For anyone under 30, it costs about $200/mo to finance the cheapest car (we're ignoring the people who buy beaters because most people don't) and rarely less than $3000/yr in insurance as the primary driver. Add about $30/wk minimum in gas and $500/yr in maintenance (oil changes, tire rotations, alignment, minor repairs, etc.). That's roughly $7400 a year, or $20 per day (or $28 if you only count business days), to own and operate a car. And that's a *conservative* estimate.
I submit, therefore, that people would be willing to pay AT LEAST that much per day for a well-designed, comfortable subway system that takes them where they want to go in less than half the time.
Why do we need the city government to make these subway systems? If a corporation can milk even $5000 per year out of 1 million frustrated city drivers, they're bringing in $5 billion in revenues per year! That's HUGE! Surely whatever outrageous figure is attached to building a private subway would pay for itself in no time at all??
And hey - why not make even more money? Put heated parking lots in the subway stations! If I were trying to get downtown, and I could get there in 10 minutes by subway but had to waste 30 minutes getting to the subway station by bus, I would GLADLY shell out a few bucks to park my car at the subway station. At $5 a pop, I'll bet they could pack in at least 1000 cars a day (across ALL the subway stations, not just one). At $5000 a day that's almost another $2 million a year in pocket cash.
Is there ANYONE here who wants to dispute these figures? I'm not a business man, or an economist, I'm sure there's probably something I'm missing, but even if you cut that profit figure down to 1%, it's still a ridiculous amount of revenue! |
u raise some good points
and yeh, the gov't could never afford something like the proposed system. a private company could invest in it for sure. id love to see something like that in my lifetime |
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| StereoPrincess |
but what company would do it?
rogers? bell? it would have to be a quite substantial company. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
but what company would do it?
rogers? bell? it would have to be a quite substantial company. |
Not necessarily - investors and venture capitalists could provide the funding (what's the word for the corporations that do nothing but invest capital - incubators?). That's what they did with the dot coms.
But maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, I don't know. I just keep looking at the 407 and thinking, hey, why can't they do that with the subway? I don't think the 407/ETR was started by any big corporation, but I could be wrong. |
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