|
new subway system! (wishful thinking for the TTC, lol) (pg. 6)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Want to start a lobby group? Or negotiate a contract with the city? :p
Seriously though - maybe none of us here have enough money or resources to do anything about it, but all someone needs to do is come up with a sales pitch and rally up enough support among the people who DO have enough. |
someone could always write a well written email to the person in charge, and see what he/she says. Could also write letter to the editor to some newspaper... |
|
|
| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
someone could always write a well written email to the person in charge, and see what he/she says. Could also write letter to the editor to some newspaper... |
It's a government bureaucracy - if there actually is anyone in charge, they won't admit it. ;)
Letter to the editor is a good idea though, I might think about writing one up and getting some input from people. Post would probably publish it - G&M might too. |
|
|
| drgoodvibe |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Want to start a lobby group? Or negotiate a contract with the city? :p
Seriously though - maybe none of us here have enough money or resources to do anything about it, but all someone needs to do is come up with a sales pitch and rally up enough support among the people who DO have enough. |
the affluent people who have enough political pull only care about the GO not the TTC. Why? becuase they have nice suburban homes in Oakeville and Sauga from which they commute from. And guess what the GO recieved over a billion dollars in funding for 5 years accounced this year. One, one way ticket is $4.25. So a GO travellers daily commute soley using the Go train is $8.50!!
The problem with the TTC is not becuase it is a government bureaucracy, let me say that. There is still no proof out there besides special scandal cases that gives credit to the idea that only the private sector can offer economic, efficient, effective products (case in point comparing Canada's health care system which is 13% to 23% cheaper then that of the HMO privitized United States system -depending on the report you look at- There are several american reports on this, I can show them if you like)
You have to remember, the GO daily rate for a ticket increases every year. There hasn't been a ticket rate change for the TTC for years. They are under constant pressure to keep their fares cheap. Even a ten cent rate hike causes a mob scene. Also the fact that there is so much resistance provincially to fund the TTC doesn't help. We won't see the effects of gas tax revenues for a while either.
I agree however, there's probably some mismanagment there. The power of the union there is also great, although I'm an avid supporter of unions i'd like to know the exact pay rates of the TTC employees compared realistically in public.
I agree whole heartedly that improvements need to be made, however implying that a private sector mass transit system is the only system that will be effective is questionable. :thepirate |
|
|
| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
No sane person would willingly take the TTC under such circumstances unless they couldn't afford a car. But I'd happily leave my car at home and take public transit if I could take the Yonge line up to Vaughan and take, say, a Highway 7 or Langstaff line to Weston. |
I don't know about that. Within city confines, there are a lot of routes that take longer by car than they do by TTC just because of traffic.
Add parking, gas, and stress time to the mix and the TTC is a sensible option even if you CAN afford a car.
The original grid posted is incredible - what a difference that would make for our city. A line into Mississauga would be sweet. |
|
|
| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
I don't know about that. Within city confines, there are a lot of routes that take longer by car than they do by TTC just because of traffic.
Add parking, gas, and stress time to the mix and the TTC is a sensible option even if you CAN afford a car.
The original grid posted is incredible - what a difference that would make for our city. A line into Mississauga would be sweet. |
Line to Missi would be sweet, as it is I have to take the GO into Toronto for my fastest access to the subway |
|
|
| RobbyG. |
| quote: | Originally posted by drgoodvibe
I agree however, there's probably some mismanagment there. The power of the union there is also great, although I'm an avid supporter of unions i'd like to know the exact pay rates of the TTC employees compared realistically in public.
|
As a skilled/licensed tradesman, my hourly rate is pretty much the same as a mechanic makes at a dealer although , because of the flat rate system at dealerships, a mechanic there can make ALOT more per year then I can (if its a busy shop).
As for the unskilled well they make a hell of alot more then the same worker in the private sector.
The old Chief General Manager David Gunn made approx. $144,000 per year where as the current CGM made $216,540.00 with taxable benefits of $13,800.00 .When Gunn was in charge he streamlined the TTC and let go ALOT of the "fat" in management but ever since the current CGM Rick Ducharme came to power there has been over 820 new management positions created...even MORE then BEFORE Gunn came in power in 1995:eyespop: ...
Now that this "gas Tax" is going towards public transit then you should know that ALOT of it is goin to new management positions & salaries...So when our union contract expires in April 2005 and will proly ask for a 2 to maybe 3% raise for the next 3 years...guess who else benefits from that raise?....TTC management:mad:
This link provides info about who makes over $100,000 per year....its an interesting read
http://www.gov.on.ca/FIN/english/psecteng.htm |
|
|
| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by drgoodvibe
(case in point comparing Canada's health care system which is 13% to 23% cheaper then that of the HMO privitized United States system -depending on the report you look at- There are several american reports on this, I can show them if you like) |
Okay, now I actually have no problem with most of what you said but that part in particular is a bit dubious. I mean I don't doubt that it's more expensive in the USA but aren't we forgetting a little something called "quality of service" here? You expect to pay more for a better product/service, and I think if there were some way to quantify the quality of medical service, the USA would come out with a far better price/quality value. You can get an MRI tomorrow in the USA; you wait for 3 years in Canada. And most of the truly amazing doctors and surgeons work in the USA because there are no salary caps there (why shouldn't the best of the best be paid the most money for their efforts? They deserve fair compensation as much as anyone else).
| quote: | | I agree whole heartedly that improvements need to be made, however implying that a private sector mass transit system is the only system that will be effective is questionable. :thepirate |
I agree! I never said that private sector is the *only* way to go. I was just pointing out that we seem to be relying on various levels of government to expand the subway system, and people should realize that the private sector COULD pick up the slack (and it would probably be quite profitable to do so), we don't HAVE to rely on the government. In fact, the scant few stations on the Shepherd line only came to be through a great deal of corporate lobbying - and probably funding too. Notice how the Shepherd line basically seems to run from mall to mall? ;)
Transportation is a touchy issue obviously. Public outcry over rate hikes is not an excuse, but safety definitely is, and I'll agree with others in this thread who've said that a private subway system would have to be very tightly regulated. The best solution is probably a hybrid public/corporate solution (perhaps some sort of subcontracting or outsourcing with profit sharing).
I'm not for a minute advocating privatization of the TTC. I just think we'd all benefit if the corporate sector decided to add their own subway routes. |
|
|
| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
The best solution is probably a hybrid public/corporate solution (perhaps some sort of subcontracting or outsourcing with profit sharing).
|
Isn't the toll highway privately AND publicly managed? because it's a disaster. |
|
|
| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Isn't the toll highway privately AND publicly managed? because it's a disaster. |
1. I don't believe so, I'm pretty sure all the assets belong to the 407/ETR group. They're obviously bound by the Highway Traffic Act and hire OPP to patrol the highway as per regulations, but aside from that I don't think any arm of the government has their pockets in it.
2. How is it a disaster? |
|
|
| RobbyG. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Isn't the toll highway privately AND publicly managed? because it's a disaster. |
By disaster do you mean from a design stand point? toll charges? And I believe that it is totally privately owned by a Spanish consortium... |
|
|
| amb_ |
| quote: | Originally posted by drgoodvibe
the affluent people who have enough political pull only care about the GO not the TTC. Why? becuase they have nice suburban homes in Oakeville and Sauga from which they commute from. And guess what the GO recieved over a billion dollars in funding for 5 years accounced this year. One, one way ticket is $4.25. So a GO travellers daily commute soley using the Go train is $8.50!!
The problem with the TTC is not becuase it is a government bureaucracy, let me say that. There is still no proof out there besides special scandal cases that gives credit to the idea that only the private sector can offer economic, efficient, effective products (case in point comparing Canada's health care system which is 13% to 23% cheaper then that of the HMO privitized United States system -depending on the report you look at- There are several american reports on this, I can show them if you like)
You have to remember, the GO daily rate for a ticket increases every year. There hasn't been a ticket rate change for the TTC for years. They are under constant pressure to keep their fares cheap. Even a ten cent rate hike causes a mob scene. Also the fact that there is so much resistance provincially to fund the TTC doesn't help. We won't see the effects of gas tax revenues for a while either.
I agree however, there's probably some mismanagment there. The power of the union there is also great, although I'm an avid supporter of unions i'd like to know the exact pay rates of the TTC employees compared realistically in public.
I agree whole heartedly that improvements need to be made, however implying that a private sector mass transit system is the only system that will be effective is questionable. :thepirate |
First off, let me apologise, as I've only read the first page of posts, along with the last two pages. This is a subject very near and dear to my heart but I'm really tired right now and need to get up at 6AM tomorrow morning. Sorry if I rehash anything that's been said...
That aside, I've had some very well-rounded and extensive ideas over the past few years that I feel could really help the public transportation conundrum in our neck of the woods. Some of these thoughts I've had the opportunity to share with those in power through the (very few) avenues available to the general public (Transport 2000, MP/MPP contact, city council and TTC meetings), however, little of this has had much of an impact. I still have hope and still continue to keep in touch with a few people who make it their purpose to further these ends.
To keep things brief, let's look at the obstacles standing in the way of a great transit system for the area. First, the facts:
- Golden Horseshoe accounts for nearly 23% of Canada's population, by far the most densely populated region in Canada.
- Most major Canadian manufacturing industry, along with the technology, service, and foodstuffs sectors call this area home.
- Growth, both in population and in the economy, continue to move strongly, with a projected 1.39% growth in Ontarians(1) over the next decade, and the economies of Oshawa, Hamilton, and Kitchener leading the way in net growth(2) overall in Canada.
- Bombardier Transportation, the foremost manufacturer of rail transportation vehicles, a Canadian company, has arguably the best public transit case knowledge, but is going through difficult times.
Second, the major obstacles:
- Fragmented bodies responsible for moving people across the area in question (regional municipalities, a transit commission, provincial and federal governments).
- Overcrowded and undermaintained highways competing for monies often slated for transportation, meaning either roads *or* public transit.
- Short-sighted politicians and policy-makers without the political will to make hard decisions that might hurt now but save us in the future.
- Draconian legislation restricting inter-urban transit.
Given the facts and obstacles I've outlined in brief, one of the potential solutions I've explored at length is the creation of a semi-autonomous body to oversee public transportation issues for the entire urbanised region, encompassed by the Golden Horseshoe.
Similar in organisational structure to the National Capital Commission, this administrative body would have the support and participation of all levels of government presently responsible for transit decisions in their own realms, including regional governments, transit commissions, and the provincial and federal governments.
A unified transit authority would have both a solid grasp on the details concerning each member, along with a clear view of the bigger picture. A big player on the transit scene, doors could more readily be opened in terms of international best practices exchanges, equipment purchasing power leverage, and end-to-end environment impact management.
Admittedly, this is a seemingly far-fetched answer to the present transit woes, but it is (IMHO) a well thought out, long-term solution. Unfortunately I have to cut this short, and am unable to fully explore this idea at the moment. I'm sure you can connect the dots and point out the fallacies. I'm looking forward to the response, and would be happy to share my writing on the topic with those genuinely interested.
I'm off to bed... G'night!
- Chris
(1) "Urban Futures Institute Report 39", ISBN 1-894486-01-3
(2) "Above Average Growth Expected in Ontario Cities", News release 03-25B - Conference Board of Canada |
|
|
| Jayx1 |
| Ive always said that the TTC should be the GTTC (Greater Toronto Transit Commission) and take over transit including GO trains from Hamilton to Oshawa to York Region. The way it is now means that you have to change buses and pay another fare just because you reach a city limit. I should be able to get on a local city bus in Oakville and be able to ride it to Oshawa. GO has a bit of the right idea with bus service but what if a bus were to start in Hamilton, go all thwe way down lakeshore and turn around in Oshawa acting as a local bus all the way through? You would have the express GO service but also the milk run option which would make the system more seamless. |
|
|
|
|
