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Why do men hate "queers"? (pg. 5)
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| {b.s.e.} |
My eyes! My eyes! They've shriveled up like raisins from reading so many word! :D
Hehe.. this is a good debate.. but you guys owe me like.. 25 minutes of my life back.. that took forever to read! :D
BSE |
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| ABTsportsline |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbital
There's some real friendly (and intelligent) coversations going on here.... not! :rolleyes:
The interesting thing i've noticed is that the word gay has become synonomous with bad. Like "such and such is gay"! or "This musik is gay!" My friends say it all the time. |
i'm sorry that our (for the most part) flame-free thread is not "intelligent enough" for you to read. :rolleyes:
Surely your comment that has NOTHING to do with this thread will add some "intelligence" to this already "lacking" thread.
Thanks!
-ABT- |
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| Ur Dream Grl |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancewave
[B]Everytime I think I'm out they pull me back in..........:rolleyes: |
THEN STOP COMING IN HERE....
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancewave
Of course you are free to your opinions |
Then STOP bitching about it.. JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!
xoxo Ur Dream Grl |
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| integrity1 |
| thats an excellent point orbital. the word gay has entered our daily vocabulary as a way to describe something bad. im not saying it ive never said it cause i certainly have, butb it really says something about our society when a persons own choice about their sexual prefrence is used to bash something you dont like |
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| ABTsportsline |
| quote: | Originally posted by integrity1
thats an excellent point orbital. the word gay has entered our daily vocabulary as a way to describe something bad. im not saying it ive never said it cause i certainly have, butb it really says something about our society when a persons own choice about their sexual prefrence is used to bash something you dont like |
...and where did that stuff start? .. In the schoolyard! Grown men don't go around calling bad things "gay". Kids do, however, in like 3rd to 6th grades!! the SAME ones who might make fun of a kid because both his parents are of the same sex? hmmmm. :eyes:
-ABT- |
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| Eugene |
I think ABTSportsLine once called me "strongly opinionated" and "too agressive in my views"...
I rest my case... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
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| ABTsportsline |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
I think ABTSportsLine once called me "strongly opinionated" and "too agressive in my views"...
I rest my case... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
no...... jesus i must be a magnet for this kind of . :rolleyes:
You were insulting other TA's opinion's Eugene, calling them stupid. I had nothing to do with the arguement at hand, saying that i think THAT was why you were instigating flame wars. In fact i actually agreed with your opinion in that thread. But i won't insult people's intelligence when they don't agree with me, which is something you fancy. ;) What i said you were aggressive on was attacking people who don't agree with you. I mentioned for you to NOT take my criticism personal, but apparently, even to the most gentle criticism, you take offense.
I apologize.
-ABT- |
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| Eugene |
| LOL, I was just kidding... |
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| {b.s.e.} |
| quote: | Originally posted by YELLOWBEE
hahaha, sorry but it is hard not like someone like you faye
Now dont get me wrong ppl, It's true though.
ANYways, We dont hate s, we hate the ppl who think we do and are constantly calling us racist, prejudice, stupid and ignorant
Cyaaaaa
YbEEE |
I hope that wasn't directed at me, Yellowbee. If it was, I believe your concerns are unfounded, and I resent that.
I did not make any statements that alluded that I thought you were stupid, or ignorant, or racist, or prejudice. Nor was I doing this constantly.:rolleyes:
I was directing my opinions to you guys, and speaking generally.
But thanks for your $0.02. :)
bse |
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| Trancewave |
ABT before I respond to you I would like to reply to 2 other people here. Hopefully it will become a little more clear.
First I would like to respond to "UR DREAM GRL"
| quote: | | THEN STOP COMING IN HERE.... |
| quote: | | Then STOP bitching about it.. JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!! |
About the bitchin'. I do believe that ABT and I (pretty much for the most part) have carried out our convo in a civilized and constructive manner. Just the fact that some people has already mentioned that they've been reading and have added some input as well as thanking us for our discussion means a great deal to me.
I'm sorry that you think I'm just bitchin' over nothing. ABT made some remarks in his original post that I found very insensitive and I made a response. Now he has appologized for the inappropriateness of some comments and I have on countless occassions appologized to him for what seemed to be an overly harsh reaction. To me, that is progress.
Somewhere along the lines we went off topic but these things are bound to happen due to the sensitive nature of the discussion. I don't know, maybe I found the comments he made in his original post to be insensitive moreso than most others would simply because for me it hits so much closer to home (with some of my gay friends).
I don't see this kind of attitude towards gays that much around here where I'm from or around the core group of people I know (of course it's there but not as blatnant). Maybe we are a little more tolerant here than where you are from, I don't know. I have thanked ABT for his honesty for expressing his views.
To be frank, I'm just about tired of this argument we are having as I'm sure ABT is as well. Like we said before, I find it odd that of all people the 2 of us are so engulfed in this heated discussion while neither one of us is really that passionate about the topic. But at the same time, I'm really glad we did have this discussion.
The last time I checked, this is an open forum and I am free to respond to comments as I see fit. No one here is forcing you to read the thread. If you don't like it, then don't read (maybe it is you who should leave?)How is it that my opinion is any less valuable than ABT's? :rolleyes: You obviously haven't read our comments thoroughly or you'd realize that although we disagree, at times our discussion have been amicable (with the occasional low blows :p ).
If I feel that I want to discuss it with ABT then I will do so regardless of what you think . I found it laughable that I quoted your entire post and it consisted of 2 lines of insults. Don't take this the wrong way but if you have nothing more constructive and intelligent to
add then I'm glad you have stayed out of it for as long as you have.
Also I like to add that I have wasted way more space and time than I care for to respond to you. So in closing I like to say (in ABT's words) "sawed off!"
Secondly, I'd like to respond to kolkiewolkie
| quote: | | I think that you're way of expression is a bit, mmm, a bit harsh, extreme and people might agree with you or if you're just trying to understand their opinion as well, instead of pushing yours and creating total misunderstanding. |
Sorry that it took so long for me to respond to your post although I've been meaning to do so.You've made a very fair assessment and I do agree with you. I re-read my comments and i can see how it can come off as harsh and for the billionth time I have made several apologies to ABT for coming out that way. I don't believe however that I've been trying to push my ideas onto ABT. On the contrary, I very much believe that you should never force your beliefs onto someone whether you think it's "right" or "wrong". I am very much against it. If it came off that way, and ABT did mentioned it, the intention was never there. He has not pushed his ideas on to me and neither have I. But I have made him realize that some of the comments he made were in fact inappropriate which he has appologized for. To me, that is more than I can ask for.
ABT.........
| quote: | | well, i didn't work at a children's camp with same-sex-parent-kids... but i did take psychology for 2 years in college... i am by no means an "expert" in psychology, but i am not making psychological profiling statements totally unfounded... If you'd like, i could find some books for you to read on studies of children with emotional trauma. I had to read 2 books on this in one semester... |
hmm, I said I worked in a summer camp with kids with same sex parent/companions that in no way refers to summer camps with children of same sex couples exclusively,(don't even know if anything like that exist).I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear there and for the misunderstanding nonetheless I am by no means whatsoever an "expert" . I'm glad you have read books on the subject and has enriched your mind and broaden your perspective of the world :rolleyes:
| quote: | | ... contradicting yourself again... you're not going to lose sleep over it, but you won't stand for it either... hmmm.... |
Have you been reading between the lines? how am I exactly contradicting myself? I said I'm glad someone with your views don't have any political stroke or else gay couples would not be allowed to adopt, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. What does that have to do with with the fact that I won't stand for what I believe in? I don't see the correlation.
If I'm not standing up for what I believe in then why exactly have I been sitting here typing all this for? :eek: I do believe firmly on everything I say and nothing is going to change that.
I do believe that one person should think for themselves and not let what our society deem as 'normal' to be the way it it's got to be. Things are changing, in my view for the better.
| quote: | | My point of McVeigh suffering from Trauma was only to show what correlation my FIRST post was made from... Kids that receive more emotional trauma and abuse are more likely to lead an abnormal adulthood... its proven fact. This was proven about McVeigh's childhood in court, and i was showing this as an example of HOW an abused child can turn out. Again, apologize for the comparison, not called for.. |
Thanx for realizing that the comparison was not called for. I probably would've never responded to your original post in the first place had you not drawn up the comparision. I would like to drop it there too.
| quote: | | of course the kids will "appear normal".... Haven't you seen the billboards about untreated depression? 90% of teen suicides are from untreated depression... why is it always untreated? Because kids are excellent at disguising their sadness. I've done it before in life, and i'm SURE you have too. My point here is only to show that your statement means NOTHING in the child's contentment in life... If you are not "blind" to the fact that some kids will carry more of an emotional burden, then you are agreeing with the statement i made several posts ago... |
I said the kids are quite 'normal' and happy. You are bringing more statistics into this. My point is that your stats don't prove nothing to me in that particular case if that child is disguising his/her depression. You don't know for a fact and only assuming that the child is likely masking his/her sadness by appearing 'normal'. Catch my drift?
I said SOME kids may carry more of an emotional burden means that I "open my eyes" and realize that it can happen, i never disagreed with you there. I never said that kids with same sex parents would NEVER have any emotional burden, to say that would be foolish. But you are assuming that they WILL be emotionally abused and traumatized based on your "studies" and that is just as equally foolish .
| quote: | | If you know my opinion is not hateful, and you know i'm not trying to "spread homophobia", then why were you so "outraged" at my original post? You said yourself that you couldn't stand to see someone write that.... hey, your words.. See above for the explanation on the McVeigh post... |
I thought I have made it very clear, don't want to reiterate the whole thing but like I said it was upsetting to me because I find it quite insensitive and you agreed that it was uncalled for (hey your words)
| quote: | | Again, i go by what i learned in college and what you see in society. You go by what "feels right". Your cause is definitely more admirable, but mine is more truthful. What i've said has been proven. You have beef with psychological studies? hmmm.... |
So you are telling me that you are not going by what you see in society as well and strictly only on what you learned in college and your studies?
You'd probably guessed by now that yes, I do have a beef with psychological studies. For me, pschological studies do didly squat to prove any argument. I mean get real, so studies shows what something is more likely to happen doesn't mean it will turn out that way. You did agree with me that you have to take things on an individual case right?
I go by what "feels right" ? that is almost laughable, you make it sound like I'm so naive. Like I said, I can only go by my experiences in life and to think for myself and prefer not to let a study dictate how I should behave or into believing that is the "truth". And exactly what is the truth anyways? The truth is that you can "guarantee" that kids growing up with same sex parents will have a much harder time in life? maybe they will, but nothing is certain and to say they will for sure go through life with emotional stress and trauma
based on what you read is irresponsible. You can't guarantee anything. Of course except life, death , and taxes.
So now that our government is allowing gay couples to adopt does that mean they would otherwise not have pass this legislation had they've been reading these studies?
Your stance that "this is reality" so deal with it does not sit too well with me. I know that this is what is happening out there, the kids probably will have a harder time adjusting than most other kids (it might also be irrevelant) , but to use that as justification for disallowing gay adoption and that they are wanting too many rights simply because they want to adopt does not cut it with me. They are not given any extra special treatment, they just want to adopt for christ sakes. You are treating gay couples like they are a separate group and don't deserve the same rights as most 'normal ' people do.
That somehow their kids will have a harder time than other kids and therefore they should not have that right to care for a child.
| quote: | | My notions are more founded than yours. Not on an equality level but on psychological studies level. You also have to look at reality, TW. Not everyone in the world is so "open & nice" as you. Don't forget (and don't give the general public more credit than it deserves), that these kids would get harassed till there is no tomorrow. You know it, and i know it. Again, the stress & trauma part has been proven. |
Thank you for the kind comment about me :) Believe me, I'm not by any means giving the public more credit than it deserves. There has to be a start somewhere. If kids learn at an early age that it is 'ok' (in my view) to be gay and quite 'normal' than they would not be harassing others about it would they? I agree with you that we are not there yet and we have a long way to go, but we are seeing some progress. Take for example it wasn't too long ago that on television (even as recently as last year) that it was considered 'inappropriate' to show gay couples kissing on camera. In fact it was never shown, even in talk shows when a gay couple would kiss the cameras would immediately pan to the audience. Now we see it all the time on television (gays kissing and displaying signs of affection) and not just on prime time only. (I'm speaking in terms of north american television, don't know how it is in other countries)
So I'm saying if kids see this all the time, some time down the road this would not be an issue if they see the gay lifestyle as "normal". I know that we have a very long way to go but it is starting and we are moving a right direction. I am in no way trying to make you agree with me that it is ok to be gay.
| quote: | | Sometimes there are other factors you have to consider... like what would the kid want? If you ask ANY child in an adoption center whether they'd prefer opposite-sex parents or same-sex parents, i'd bet you a hundred bucks you and i both know what the answer would be. |
Exactly, and why'd you think that is so? Because we as a society has not yet fully embraced the gay lifestyle completely into our society. Now, this might just be wishful thinking here but if we do (and it's starting slowly) incorporate the gay lifestyle in our society and view it as normal with no prejudice than maybe in the future a child of same sex parents would not have that burden to deal with. We are actually seeing it happen albeit very slowly but we are seeing it more prevelant in our society like through the media for example. You can never eliminate all prejudice, it will exist in some form or another. I know that. But at least it can get to a point where it's more tolerable and become more socially accepted. |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
I won't use the 'f' word. That's just gross, I rank it down there with that 'c' word. But seriously, I'm so utterly sick and tired of hearing "I hate s." All I have to say to that is, "Why?".
It's such a tired phrase too. Ignorant. Prejudice. Stupid.
Now, I'm not attacking anyone here. Not even those ignorant to post b.s. like that on this board. I'm attacking the idea, questioning its logic. For those of you who do hate homosexuals, I want you to ask yourself why you do. You'll come up blank, I hope. THere are no real reasons, just ignorance and fear. Do you guys think that all homosexuals are going to hit on you? Are you that full of yourself? Why would a gay spend time hitting on poor, insignigcant you? They don't, at least the majority of them.
Now, I'm not gay.. I don't go to parades to support them, rallies, etc.. but I do support their choice. this 'God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve' bull. that attitude, if God wants it that way, then Him too. Human equivalence is what is going to keep us alive for these next hundred years. These tiny, moronic, pointless ideas between our fellow humans are what will be the end of us.
I ask you, are you racist? You'll say no, most likely. But you are, if you think that a homosexual/lesbian is any less of a person than you, and therefore earns your scorn or hatred. You are the lesser person. You deserve their hatred, and mine.
ANyways.. I've said my piece.:rolleyes:
bse |
LOL...okay I may get flamed for this but here goes. I have no problem with gay ppl as long as some gay person doesn't come and grab me or anything. My policy is simple, if u respect me, I'll respect u. But getting back to the gay issue, I honestly can't understand how someone can be gay, maybe it's a cultural thing or maybe it's cause i don't have any gay friends but I have always thought that it's more a choice to be gay not something that u are born with....I know a lot of ppl don't believe that, but that's my personal feeling.
I don't have a problem with gay ppl but i know that if i had a son and he said that he was gay I would be disappointed (maybe even pissed) if that makes me a bigot then so be it...I don't care if u wanna be gay or stight but if someone in my family was one then I would not like it. Having said that i do believe that ppl should be free to live as they wish so if somoene wants to be gay then it's his right and they should be allowed to do it. |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Are you so insecure that that would bother you? That's frightfully ignorant.
I'm sorry, I don't have the attention span to actually direct an rgument toward you.. so you'll have to settle.:rolleyes:
Today's society is much more accepting (it is a slow process).. but I expect (hope) that in 10 years, people won't think like you.
BSE |
Hmmm....It's very easy to take the high seat and say that people are being narrow minded but have u taken a momment to consider what kind of impact a child growing up with 2 same sex parents will have. The fact is that kids are cruel and the last thing a child needs is to be teased about how he has 2 dads or moms. If gay ppl want to marry that's okay, because they are not effecting anyone else except themselves but when they start having kids that's being unfair to the kids. The world is not an accepting place and it never will be...look at how many problems we already have, rasicm, bigamy, war..etc. Are u naive enough to think that in 20 or 30 years man kind will suddenly evole and realize that all people are basically the same ??? LOL if u do then your an idealist...the fact is that there will always be people who won't accept things that are different from the norm...and being gay or have a family which has 2 dads if different.
Anyway I'm rambling...but the truth is that sometimes i feel that gay people get a little too excited about their gay pride and don't think about the consequences of their actions...that's why when it comes to gay people adopting childern I would have to say that I'm not in favor of it. |
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