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Did Ferry Corsten killed trance? (pg. 24)
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| Floorfiller |
| boy if i was ferry corsten...seeing threads talking about my responsibility for the destruction of a genre would really make me wanna stop by and say hello :stongue: :p |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sykonee
That's about it in a nutshell, really. Of course, a breakdown here and there is fine, but not song after song. It just kills the flow of the rhythm.
That's just my taste, mind. I'm sure there are those who enjoy breakdowns every 5-8 minutes just fine, even look forward to them. More the power to them.:) |
I completely agree. Maybe there are parties that thrive on constant breakdowns, but I sure as hell haven't seen them.
Occasional insane breakdowns can work, but I find that track after track of them kill a party. Fast. |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Laher
ferry did not kill trance
Just listen to indigo, kyoto, sublime and cubikated and then tell me if he killed trance. |
You don't understand.
Ferry is one of the few people who can make effective Dutch trance. Not many can. But the defining features of Dutch trance are antithetical and opposite to those of trance in its original form.
The genres themselves are value neutral. It's just that Dutch thrives off the very features that its root genre disavows. Ishkur phrases this as Ferry "killing" trance to highlight the irony of it, purely satirical. |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Blue Balls
If you were to ask them to defind dutch epic trance, what are examples of good and dutch epic trance, and what they think of the genre currently you would get a variety of intellegent answers.
It was only recently that I read cobalt,Ian, and torontotrance say some very interesting things on the topic. |
Aw, thanks. I just post here because no one else in my real life gives much of a sh¡t about the music I like. :p |
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| Alexan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cobalt
Aw, thanks. I just post here because no one else in my real life gives much of a sh¡t about the music I like. :p |
:D that's what ta is here for |
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| JakeC |
they've spelt oakenfold worng. |
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| Alexan |
| quote: | Originally posted by JakeC
they've spelt oakenfold worng. |
correction, I spelt oakenfold wrong :p
and you spelt wrong wrong |
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| JakeC |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alexan
correction, I spelt oakenfold wrong :p |
lol :D |
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| Alexan |
| quote: | Originally posted by JakeC
lol :D |
yeah well I did it in like 2 minutes out of boredom so I didn't pay much attention when I did that thing in paint! |
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| muckluck |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Classic trance is very simplistic and repetitive. Epic trance actually has more musical merit than classic trance. |
So you're saying musical merit is based on how "complex" music is? Does minimal techno have less musical merit than trance then? Tech-House has more musical merit than Glitch House maybe? What the hell are you talking about? I should probably just leave it at that since your very premise that less complex music has less "merit" is faulty and it doesn't matter how simple or complex Classic Trance was, but i'll go on.
Now on to the simplistic part. If you've heard many Classic Trance songs you'll notice that none have less than 5 "tracks" (a repeating melodic or percussive segment other than the kick and hi-hats--mostly melodic since we're talking about trance here) that are played synchronously in at least one part of the track if not most of it. You'll also notice that Epic Trance averages no more than 6 usually. All trance songs average about 5-7+ individual "tracks" running at the same time in a given section of a given song. 6 and 7+ usually only on GOA/psy songs. I purposely listened to the four most simple Classic Trance songs i've ever heard, and only one had no more than 4 "tracks" playing at once in any given section of the song. House music averages about 3-5 "tracks" playing at once in the busiest section of a song. Techno about 1-4. Classic Trance is every bit as complicated as Epic.
But you say the melodies are more complex in epic trance. Well that depends. Is complexity simply the chord progression changing notes for more bars before repeating? Or is complexity several relatively repetitive melodies being added, removed, replaced, and synchronized at proper intervals and due time complex? I think either. Epic trance is complex because of the former and Classic because of the latter. The difference being when you incorporate the former, the latter becomes nullified, therefore losing the original repetitive intent of the music. You don't think Classic Trance producers knew how to vary the notes on their melodies so that they weren't more repetitive? They did. Epic trance producers didn't invent the idea of melodies in music lasting for long periods of time without repeating. Classic trance producers made the music that way because that was how it was supposed to be. It was what it was supposed to be, therefore it had merit. Since it has turned into something that is no longer what it was supposed to be, Epic Trance, it has no merit.
| quote: | | For all the talk of pop melodies and pop elements (as if breakdowns are pop), everyone fails to realise that this actually could be a good thing. |
No it can't. All popular music does is take small things from its root genre and add things which appeal to more people and take away from the original intent of the music.
| quote: | | Classic trance is unrefined, rough and in a lot of cases very weak music. It may have cut the mustard in 1992, but thirteen years and countless musical and technological developments since, it sounds very dated. |
Countless musical and technological developments since 1992 huh. Oh, you mean the advent of the JP-8000. Is it really an advancement more than something that creates a different sound? It makes super sawtooth waves in trance music. Now how is that sawtooth more advanced than the one that comes from a 303 for example? It's not, in fact it's worse because it's never arpeggiated when it's used often as the lead synth, and when it's not the lead it's of course washing behind a blaring epic trance melody lasting god knows how many bars. Accordingly, all trance is based on arpeggiated melody and 99% of trance songs contain it. Okay, 100% have it, else it would not be trance. Anyway, that's why what I explained in the middle part of this paragraph is bad.
Oh, and you must think highly of your evolved trance music. Your "technical developments" haven't seemed to affect in any significant way, say, Deep House since 1992{or earlier}, and certain types of Techno since the mid 90's. Those genres must be immune to the advent of super sound technology or something.
| quote: | | It's ridiculous to assume that all breakdowns are bad, all melodies are pop and that all classic trance was good. A lot of it was absolute e, just as a lot of modern trance is. |
Not all melodies are pop. All epic trance melodies are pop. Not all classic trance was good trance. All epic trance is bad trance. Not all epic trance is bad. Hope that explains something. Likely it won't sink in this time either.
| quote: | | Anyone who thinks that melodies are bad things is obviously a very boring sod indeed. |
I like melody. That's why I listen to Trance.
| quote: | | Not all epic trance melodies are massive, not all of them are pop and some of them are very subtle indeed. |
Most of them are. |
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| kr00t0n |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cobalt
I completely agree. Maybe there are parties that thrive on constant breakdowns, but I sure as hell haven't seen them.
Occasional insane breakdowns can work, but I find that track after track of them kill a party. Fast. |
You've just been going to the wrong parties then mate :p
viva la London trance scene!! |
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