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What would you do? (pg. 17)
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Echo of Silence
It is important to be true to your self and to be true to your convictions. But to play God or to assume the role of an all knowing entity? No.
Think of all the convicted rapists and murderers in your country who are now being released because DNA tests proved that they weren't the actual rapist, they weren't the actual murderer. Without the system, you or Orbs would have executed justice against these people...?
I say to err is human. Even victims can err.
And Arbits, I can't argue with you. You know that. So this will be my last post in this thread. I was surprised because to me, you usually are so right and in my opinion, on this one, you are wrong. But, eh, I'm often wrong. So....
;) |
The merit of an individual response to a wrong isn't a free license by any means to shoot first and ask questions later, although that may be one's initial inclination. How one comes to a determination of guilt and an appropriate punishment need not be reckless or irrational (although if you put it in the hands of a small group of bozos picked off the street, it's likely to be.) If I didn't think my perceptions were more accurate, and my judgments more just, then I wouldn't think I ought to take matters into my own hands.
In any case as a person who's been on both ends of quite a significant number of harsh beatings I can tell you that I wouldn't prefer to wrongly spend a decade in a cage to wrongly being beaten, unless my injuries resulted in severe handicap or death. Maybe it makes me a weird guy in this day and age, but pain is just... pain, you pick yourself up, try to take a lesson from it, and you move on. But lost time can never be returned. If one is to err to the side of caution, then I'd say a quick, painful beating with a minimal chance of death or disability is the way to go, not the prolonged waste of the accused's time and society's money.
If we started accurately referring to imprisonment as a form of torture, maybe more people would come around to this realization.  |
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| NiteMer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
well, by the Grace and Forgiveness of God, hopefully He wont send me to Hell for defending a rape victim. He also says mind the laws of man as long as they do not go against His Word. Then you get into Old Testament Eye for Eye things vs new testament Turn a Cheek thing. Which is more valid. Id say both, because one is saying there will be equivalent damage, but turn the cheek and let the law deal with it IF the law will deal with it. Rapists get off easssy. Miranda ADMITTED to raping 2 women and got completely off because "he didnt know he couldnt do that"
our system is historically flawed and im sure in the religious hierarchy rape SHOULD be more priority than 12 year old girls downloading songs off napster. Then again, im all screwed up apparently
Arguing Bible is ultimately futile because all is forgiven when asked. You have to be honest and genuine. I think some people are mixing up LIKING hurting people with hurting them. I stopped boxing years ago because I dont like it. Someone offered me 1000 dollars the other day to take a starling nest out of their house and kill the babies. Not even ty starling babies would I touch. Im not a fan of it, id much rather get drunk and around. You think I LIKE going up to people and having to deal with that . I am a huge fan of not having stress in my life.
I dunno, I guess im blind in my hypocracy. |
I was only pointing out that it is clearly stated, in the NT (Romans 13), that one should obey the authorities. I would have trouble resisting an attack on some guy that raped someone in my family, but I would know that what I was doing was wrong. Surely salvation is based on grace, but that doesn't mean that we should do things that we know are wrong, on a whim. Not saying I wouldn't do that either, just so you know. As far as the OT vs. NT sidings, I would have to go with the NT, as it's part of the new covenant, whereas the OT is not. But, believe me, I make mistakes all of the time. I just try not to justify/rationalize them. Just confess and move on, you know? |
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| dj tek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
WARNING: long post, but if u have the time to read and respond, i appreciate it! :)
ok so recently i met this girl who cocktail waitresses at a local sports bar and we really hit it off. we've only hung out 2 times, but we seem really comfortable with each other already and i can tell we're gonna be good friends. i went to this BBQ at their apt. complex (she lives with her boyfriend) 2 weekends ago and her boyfriend was there with his family and stuff (it was his sister's sweet 16 party), and everyone seemed cool and nice.
so anyway, i got a voicemail from her on Saturday and she sounded horrible and sad and she was like, "hey it's me, call me back please i have to tell you something"
well it turns out that she and her boyfriend got in a fight around 4 in the morning Saturday morning and he beat her up. she took a cab or bus or something back to georgia (her family lives there) and so now she's in georgia.
she doesn't want to stay there and she doesn't have a car or anything either, so basically she's a wreck. i felt really bad for her, and i talked to her for a while on Saturday just basically lecturing her and telling her that there is absolutely no excuse for him to lay a finger on her. i guess he turns into a nasty drunk and he has a drinking problem...
so i told her that i would talk to my future roommate to see if he is cool with having another roommate. i mean, if there's 3 of us, we can rent like a house and afford a nicer place, and plus she is really cool and tomboyish, so even though he'd have 2 female roommates, we're not like your typical bitchy, whiny females. i told her we were thinking september as our move in date and she was like, "oh man, that would be awesome, i could save money for the next couple of months, and i have a big screen tv that we can use" bla bla bla so she was totally stoked about it and really grateful that i was offering this.
anyway, i talked to my roommate, and didn't give him details, but i was honest about what happened with her (i just said her bf is an and beat her up and she wants to leave him and move out, but she can't afford her own place). he wasn't opposed to it, but he said he'd want to meet her first and stuff obviously.
but now that i'm thinking about it, i don't know if it was a good idea. i mean i really want to help her out, but at the same time, i don't want to like go out of my way to get my roommate to agree to this, and then help her get a job (i told her i could hook her up with a job with one of the bf's attorney friends) and then have her go back to him, u know? i know how this works, and she's very vulnerable right now because she has no car, and the apt. she lived in was his, etc...so the easy way for her would be to make up with him, you know?
i already told her that when she flies back into town (should be soon) to get her clothes and her dog and everything, that i would pick her up from the airport and take her to his place. i doubt he'll pull any if i'm there, and i'd like to see him try anyway! hahah
anyway, what should i do? i want to help her out, but i don't know. i mean even my roommate was cool with it, but he was like, "man i don't want her psycho ex showing up at our place with drama and i'm gonna have to beat his ass" which is true. it wouldn't be fair to us.
i was thinking of just straight up talking to her and just tell her that she needs to make a choice, meaning, she's gonna dump his ass, move on and have her own place with us, and become independant, or she can go back to him.
i know i don't have the right to tell her what to do with her life and him, but at the same time, i do have the right to tell her that i'm not going to have some wife beating ing coming over to our place all the time if she's going to stay in contact with him. it WILL happen again, that's a given...especially if he continues to drink. and i just don't want the drama in my house of her coming home crying to us because he beat her up again u know?
it's a tough call for me. input please.. |
wow.. finally got around to read the story... and i must say you have a good heart for willing to help this girl out.. someone you barely know, what, you hung out with her 2-3 times ? anyway, i think she's in a terrible situation and what youve offered is something ppl can just wish for [in her situation] but at the same time the fact that you barely know this girl comes in the way of things a bit.. shes moving in with you AND your [male]roomate [Three's Company anyone ? heh] and basically gonna have a new life really.. involving you alot obviously... to be optimistic, it cant all work out, you guys can become the best of friends and help getting a better/bigger place rather than something the 2 of you[you & your original roomate] would settle for and happily live after etc etc.. on the other side, say you find out about this girl that youre not too fond of, emotional issues, annoying behavior, weird habbits, whatever it might be its something you dont really see when youre just 'haning out' but are things that you see if you live with that person. i really dont know what to tell you as i dont know too much in dept about your surroundings but just be wise when making the decision cuz it is involving 2 other ppl and not just you.. i just weighed out the pros and cons[which you probably know already] so it might look a little more clear. whatever the case i hope it works out and dont forget to get back to us.
:p |
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| Dervish |
Arbiter I'm confused here, are you saying that if someone raped say your sister (since you guys are using the subjective argument method) you'd prefer to give them the easy option of a severe beating (corporal punishment or are you still getting to be the judge?)?
So they get a little beat up for a bit, wake up in morning sore but ok. And your sister? What about her?
Or is it in addition to being locked up? Or should you be allowed to kill them? |
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| Slylee |
ok...i talked to her and now she's already making excuses for him, so i'm really turned off. she went from, "that ing hasn't even called to see where im at or if i'm ok, bla bla" to..
"yea we talked and i guess a lot more happened than i remembered"
then she went on to tell me how SHE was really wasted and passed out and he had been calling and calling, and then finally when he came home at like 4 in the morning (oh how nice of him to finally come home), there was broken glass on the floor (from her i guess) and he stepped on it and got pissed and BLA BLA BLA...
it was her tone...it was like she was justifying him hitting her...so whatever.
honestly...i thought and thought about it and i dunno...the 3 of us have dogs...hers is a puppy boxer and he will obviously get huge, & and my roommate has a wymreiner (excuse my spelling lol) and then i have my dog (medium sized mutt)...it's going to be pretty damn hard to find a place for rent that will let us have 3 medium to large dogs, and to be honest, i don't want 3 dogs in my house...jesus, it would be a damn zoo.
so yea i dunno..i'm totally still gonna help her get a job n stuff, but i dunno if i want her to move in now...
i really don't want the drama, and i know there will be drama...i think they are just that kind of couple...they love drama and it's just that stereotypical unhealthy relationship like pam and tommy lee. lol |
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| Slylee |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj tek
heh |
i know right...
oh well...i was hoping this wouldn't happen, but in the back of my mind, i figured they would make up, but whatever.
i'm not even worried about how i'm going to tell her nevermind, because i'm sure she'll be telling ME nevermind first! :stongue: |
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| jonze234 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
ok...i talked to her and now she's already making excuses for him, so i'm really turned off. she went from, "that ing hasn't even called to see where im at or if i'm ok, bla bla" to..
"yea we talked and i guess a lot more happened than i remembered"
then she went on to tell me how SHE was really wasted and passed out and he had been calling and calling, and then finally when he came home at like 4 in the morning (oh how nice of him to finally come home), there was broken glass on the floor (from her i guess) and he stepped on it and got pissed and BLA BLA BLA...
it was her tone...it was like she was justifying him hitting her...so whatever.
honestly...i thought and thought about it and i dunno...the 3 of us have dogs...hers is a puppy boxer and he will obviously get huge, & and my roommate has a wymreiner (excuse my spelling lol) and then i have my dog (medium sized mutt)...it's going to be pretty damn hard to find a place for rent that will let us have 3 medium to large dogs, and to be honest, i don't want 3 dogs in my house...jesus, it would be a damn zoo.
so yea i dunno..i'm totally still gonna help her get a job n stuff, but i dunno if i want her to move in now...
i really don't want the drama, and i know there will be drama...i think they are just that kind of couple...they love drama and it's just that stereotypical unhealthy relationship like pam and tommy lee. lol |
sounds like she's joined your Denial Alliance |
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| dj tek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
i know right...
oh well...i was hoping this wouldn't happen, but in the back of my mind, i figured they would make up, but whatever.
i'm not even worried about how i'm going to tell her nevermind, because i'm sure she'll be telling ME nevermind first! :stongue: |
seems like theres she needs to sort out with the bf first... cant really get inbetween emotions no matter how much you try. theyll do what they wanna do.. so, no threes company huh ? :) |
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| Dervish |
| Seems to me the bf is a presuasive prick, who is manipulating her. I think the drama prediction is right. He's gonna hit her again and the cycle continues. |
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| CraveTheRave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
i know right...
oh well...i was hoping this wouldn't happen, but in the back of my mind, i figured they would make up, but whatever.
i'm not even worried about how i'm going to tell her nevermind, because i'm sure she'll be telling ME nevermind first! :stongue: |
Well that's that. Don't let her move in. It's still very nice of you to even help her look for a job. But that's all you should do for her. They do seem like one of those couples where the guy is a piece of garbage who likes to hit her and she'll pull every excuse to defend him (he hits me bc he loves me, it was for my own good, he was drunk and didn't know what he was doing, bla bla bla). So for your sake, drop her like a good pill.
Terry |
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| Slylee |
i really don't think he's manipulating her...i think she is just comfortable in that ty relationship and she's probably really intimidated at having to get a new job, get her own car, move out, save money...
she's taking the easy way out...i did that a few times and learned the hard way...i guess she will too. |
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