|
The Perfect Kick - Here's How (pg. 9)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Tech0rz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Emperor
you unconciously learn chord changes> what works and what doesnt |
I was thinking about this the other day. I was wondering how many of my less musical friends could actually predict what chord or note will come next, as i often can. I guess it comes down to how interested you are in understanding the music, rather than just listening.
I find when I'm listening to pop music for example, I can often anticipate what the how the melody with unfold. I think it's this ability that attracts me to other styles of music, if you're heard Dream Theater for example, it's almost impossible to predict, with all the off beats and complex progressions = Interesting |
|
|
| Emperor |
| Actually, that is why i have so much respect for more solid productions, or even pop music. Pop music has to be produced very solid (pro chord progressions and such) because it has to appeal to even the most music-stupid people. Like you said in pop music, you can always tell where the progression might go. It's solid and i have respect for that. It is easy when starting out producing (not knowing any theory) to just through any chord after another.....and to you at that time it might not sound like ......but, listen to it 4 years later. You might make yourself sick....since over time your ears become more in tune from focusing on music. You will laugh at your old musical pieces... |
|
|
| Tech0rz |
That can be said for alot of things, it's just the fact that we improve/evolve musically that causes it.
A painter looks at his first painting. A magician looks at the first trick he learned. It's going look terrible in retrospect, after 4 years.
I understand that what we're talking about, is becoming more advanced in the way we process musical thoughts in our heads, and that "solid" in pop music is usually the right way to go (because to be "popular" it generally requires simplicity, yet solidity). But that's why I don't enjoy/appreciate pop music as much as other styles...because of the fact that the melodies are often catchy, but very basic.
I am generalising here, and I also do appreciate some of the production side of pop music, but when it's not even the singer or band writing the tunes or melodies, I tend to just bundle the song into the "average" pile. |
|
|
| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Emperor
as a matter of fact....the 'note' or pitch of the kick does matter........thats totally what sets a pro track apart from a amatuer track...an amatuer will just place sound randomly and expect that everything works....(it doesnt)...maybe rhythm-wise but the percussion will not work together to create a sort of 'emlody' that it needs to..
...like the dude said previously, you can tell at the start of a pro track before the kick comes in, what note it will be in.The same way you can magically predict the next notes in a pro-written melody. With progressions you only have a certain amount of choices to a chord change. I was taught a very knowledgable theory teacher that a human ear just can prrdict what notes come from what, >if you are 20 years old , even if you are not into music , you have still heard 20 years of music driving in the car or something..you unconciously learn chord changes> what works and what doesnt.......anyhow...im blabbing on and on but YES the pitch of a kick or any percussion DOES make a difference.......but good luck tuning them...better to just take time and go through lots of samples......later |
Well, that's just about the most ridiculous (not to mention grammatically bankrupt) thing I've ever heard on this forum. |
|
|
| Emperor |
| did i ever say i got an A in English? =) |
|
|
| Emperor |
| maybe you also misunderstood me. I respect the producers of pop music because as far as skills go they know what they are doing.......but ya as far as the creativity of pop music, yes its not that creative... |
|
|
| Reactance |
| Emperor you a joke man :eek: ! Why dont u put urself on a musical course or something :wtf: |
|
|
| Axolotyl |
I dont get it? Why is this dude gettin slammed? I can totally get the connection between pop and trance, especially the cheesy .
As for tuning kicks... I dont do it, but it makes perfect sense to me. |
|
|
| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Emperor
did i ever say i got an A in English? =) |
Here, the Emperor, have an A in English !
(strongbad reference):D |
|
|
| Tech0rz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
I dont get it? Why is this dude gettin slammed? I can totally get the connection between pop and trance, especially the cheesy .
As for tuning kicks... I dont do it, but it makes perfect sense to me. |
I think it was the following statements that made me think...
| quote: | Originally posted by Emperor
the 'note' or pitch of the kick does matter........thats totally what sets a pro track apart from a amatuer track
|
I beg to differ, Sir...maybe you should think that one through a bit more carefully.
| quote: | Originally posted by Emperor
you can magically predict the next notes in a pro-written melody
|
surely if a pro wrote a melody they wouldn't make it as predictable as if an amateur wrote it. (generalising again)
| quote: | Originally posted by Emperor
With progressions you only have a certain amount of choices to a chord change. |
Chord change is only half of it...the other half being the chord or note duration.
Anyway, despite my view I can definately still see where he's coming from . |
|
|
| DigiNut |
1. Pitch is defined by a fundamental plus harmonics. Kicks rarely have a discernable fundamental frequency (they're more like a broad spectrum in the bass range), and therefore cannot have pitch. Kicks which do have a recognizable pitch generally sound awful in a mix no matter how they're tuned.
2. There is no formula for professional music - chord progressions, melodies, or otherwise. Classical music, jazz, funk, soul, hip hop (rap), trip hop, house, psytrance, and more were all created by people who defied convention and broke the rules. Formulaic music may have more commercial appeal due to its familiarity but that does not make it good or professional (in fact, it's usually the production quality of a track that makes it "professional", not its musical richness).
3. If you think you are able to tell what key a track is in by listening to the kick, it's because most of the crap out there is all in the same key to begin with. And if you're able to magically predict the next segment of a melody or progression, it's probably because it's been ripped off from some other melody or progression. Music can be original and unpredictable and still be good/professional - it's just that there's an assload of producers out there who exploit formulas for commercial success (and occasionally resort to outright plagiarism).
4. Trance (in its true form) is dark, brooding, layered music with an abundance of gated and staccatto effects and synths. What many people in this thread are referring to as "trance" is just bastardized trance - saccharine, syrupy, mind-numbing uber-hyper-ultra-mega-super-saw schlock trance, slathered in commercial mayonnaise and ketchup. Half of the vocal stuff isn't even differentiable from Euro anymore (one of the local Euro radio stations here actually plays several of these tracks). That *particular* flavour of trance sounds similar to pop music because it IS pop music, retaining almost no elements of real trance except for the syncopated kick/hi-hat/bass pattern, and not even retaining that during the 45-minute breakdown sequences.
Please, do not use this as the definition of "trance", because trance was never historically so commercial. Defining trance by the standards of Rank 1 and Ferry Corsten is like defining rap by the standards of Ja Rule and Fifty Cent. None of these artists reflect what the genres really are. Just as those of us who aren't culturally braindead would prefer to remember hip hop as the music of Grandmaster Flash and the Funky Four, there were/are still many good trance producers and DJs like Baby Doc, Tarantella, and Christopher Lawrence.
I'm sorry for that rant but it absolutely had to be said. There are too many people rambling on and on in this thread like they know everything there is to know about this , when they really sound like high schoolers trying to come up with a thesis for their term paper in social studies. |
|
|
| mysticalninja |
Trance in its True Form is dark and brooding? :rolleyes: wtf ever.
dont worry about trance being commercial either. its not at all, here in usa anyway. im sure the worst trance song on your radio is better than the best song the RETARDED techno stations play around here. |
|
|
|
|
