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Diet Question (pg. 5)
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| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
hehe I wasnt trying to imply that your body chemically alters proteins into fats. as the muscle "shrinks" it tends to get coated in fatty sheaths and what not.
usually people gain weight after stopping. Im surprised you lost, thats pretty cool |
Well I wasn't exactly a ton of fun before starting. In fact I was the weakest guy in class. In two and a half years I more than doubled my upper body strength and gained that muscle weight. Which was how the overtraining happened. Which is why I had to stop. Was 180 lb's or so before, now around 150-155, my scale is old and probably not very accurate. Most of it was lost from upper body..hahaha. I was a foghorn leghorn. Don't be a foghorn leghorn.
Anyway, i'd have to eat a lot to gain back in fat the muscle that i've lost. And i'm running now anyway and cutting all sweets, so i'm probably going to lose the extra fat around the corners. But I would say most people who build a lot of muscle would lose weight after stopping, because muscle weighs more than fat, and it atrophies at pretty fast rate, often much faster than one could gain fat. |
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| Orbax |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vlad
Im not quite understanding what you mean. Are you saying, start normal, progress higher with weight... and than the second time around use very little weight? |
well if im doing just 1 set of bench i rep 185, but if im doing DB bench after ill do 165 and conserve some strength so I can do 3 full sets on DB too instead of having to drop ridiculous amunts of weight for DB bench yah know |
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| Vlad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
well if im doing just 1 set of bench i rep 185, but if im doing DB bench after ill do 165 and conserve some strength so I can do 3 full sets on DB too instead of having to drop ridiculous amunts of weight for DB bench yah know |
Yea, I totally understand, it was just the way you worded it kinda confused me. I have a relatively weak chest, so along with burning fat, Im gonna be strengthening my chest in the process.
One other question, I work out at night (I usually get home around 11PM), what would you suggest I eat post-workout... if anything at all? |
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| OLi_A |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vlad
One other question, I work out at night (I usually get home around 11PM), what would you suggest I eat post-workout... if anything at all? |
depends what kind of workout your doing. if you are just doing mainly weights then maybe have a bit of prtoein (bit of chicken no bigger than palm of hand is enough). any kind of glycogen depleting exercise such as running for an extended period of time (weights is NOT glycogen depleting) should be followed with a high GI carb drink or food to replace muscle glycogen. other than that you shouldnt eat much because your about to go to sleep |
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| OLi_A |
also, the only dietary supplement that really has shown to be of any benefit to you is creatine. this in mind, creatine supplementation only benefits repeated short bouts of work lasting up to 8 seconds.
there is the suggestion that creatine supplementation is that the natural synthesis of creatine can be diminished if taken for an extended period of time (i think this is theoretically based). the implication is that if taken over an excessive period of time, upon cessation there MAY not be enough of an available substrate pool for the atp-cp system. bear in mind that this is a speculative idea because i havent read any research pertaining to this, just going on the word of our head lecturer (i study exercise science).
in regards to creatine being used to break a plateau, this is not true. plateaus normally occur if youve been doing the same training regime for an extended period of time. the key is to periodise your training, or even better is to change the exercises you are doing. the key is patience
TRAINING
in regards to your training program vlad, i hope that you are going to gradually work yourself into that program. too many times i see people (myself included) embark on a training regime with a volume that far exceeds their physiological capabilities and then quit because they end up overtraining. the best example i can give from experience is when i was training every day for about 2 months and playing two games of rugby on the weekends. it took about 3 months of rest to get back to levels below that of what i started.
this in mind, overreaching (3-5 weeks of intense training) is ok to do if you have scheduled recovery weeks in between. id suggest a 5 week cycle: 4 weeks PROGRESSIVELY increasing your training volume and then 1 week of active recovery. active recovery can either be done by reducing your volume of training to levels below that of the first week of the cycle, or just going for a light jog/swim/cycle on 3 days of the week (low intensity, relatively short duration i.e. 15 minutes).
it sounds like you are doing nothing, but in actuality you are giving your body the time it needs to recover and supercompensate for the preceeding 4 weeks of accumulated fatigue. overtraining is a bitch
again, i stress patience
DIET
just make sure your getting the energy you need to complete the work your going to do. for the general population, the recommened ratio of carbs:fat:protein in their diet is around 55:30:15
for the regime you want to do (which i'd class as being an athletes program regardless of you not training for a sport) the ratio of caloric intake you should take would be 60:25:15
the reason protein wont change is because the recommendation i gave for the general population was the high end (the range being about 10-15).
YOU DO NOT NEED TO SUPPLEMENT PROTEIN. there is no valid data out there that backs up that protein supplementation is more effective than natural sources. 1.5-2g/kg is what individuals who are strength training need. elite athletes need slightly more but that is because they are usually training for about 4-6 hours a day. other than burning a hole in your pocket, synthesised protein is not totally taken up by the body as we are programmed to absorb amino acids that are in specific combinations (i.e. those found in meats).
the main take home message is just eat properly. supplementation is only necessary when there is a deficiency present (eg. iron in anemics and possibly protein in vegetarians)
well that was fun, hope it helps. all ive given you is a theoretical basis from which you need to expand on. in regards to what food to eat, the australian institute of sport has an AWESOME website which has nutritional recipes (that taste well...awesome) that you can use to factor into your diet
ais-nutrition website
only problem is that everything is in kilojoules and the measurements are all metric.
to convert kj to kcal, just divide the kj value by 4.186
search the net for metric conversions |
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| OLi_A |
take this in your stride, im not swiping at people, just clarifying things
| quote: | Originally posted by Vlad
You cannibalize muscle to replace fats (stored energy) when it is low. Also, proteins are way more complex to breakdown than lipids, so it doesnt make sense. |
excess glucose, fat or protein for that matter if not used is stored as fat. the only time muscle is broken down for energy is during times of starvation when there is little stored fat available. it may be more complex to breakdown lipids, but because of their structure, they are the prefereable storage mechanism of the body because each gram of fat is worth over 2 times more than protein and glucose
| quote: | Originally posted by SAEBodybuilder
A local nutritionist or bodybuilder will be able to steer you more clearly, it would be worth the fee in my opinion for someone who dosen't know much about this stuff. |
nutritionist yes, but i would never trust a bodybuilder with an exercise/diet/steroid regime (im not supporting steroids here). this is a general comment because i know there are bodybuilders out there who do know what their talking about, but just because someone is big, doesnt mean their routine will benefit you
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
proteins are chains, easy to snip, fat is a complex structure difficult to break down and leaves keytones the "ash" when it is burned. Hard to use, leaves waste, and your body doesnt like to burn it. Muscle is easy fuel. |
again, muscle isnt fuel. proteins are much more difficult to utilise as energy, and their byproducts are much more damaging than ketones. ketones are only a problem when there is high glucose in the blood as it is indicative of diabetes.
your body actually will burn fat (and prefers it) at lower intensities because ATP isnt being used at a high rate. only when you start to work above a certain threshold does the substrate affinity move to glucose
| quote: | Originally posted by TVG
Go to the menshealth.com, t-mag.com, or jpfitness.com forums. Most of the people their with impressive physiques are eating at least 2g/lb. |
the people with impressive physiques truly are wonders, but extremely low fat levels in the body has highly damaging effects (inability to create those steroid hormones that we need). the things people do to achieve that "cut" look are unsustainable and america being the place that it is, i wouldnt be suprised if these guys had implants or some sort of cosmetic surgery:stongue:
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
as for creatine...
ATP is your body's fuel. Creatine is basically phosphogen. Which is another supplement out there. Your body basically snips off the phosphate head and uses it for energy. Creatine super saturates your body with phosphate heads for rapid reabsorption which lets you knock out some more sets thus increasing the overall work/pressure done on your body.
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the relationship that creatine has with phosphate is more as a phophate carrier, not something that saturates your muscle cells with phosphate per se.
ill take it that by phosphagen you are refering to a phosphate supplement. phosphate loading is different to creatine loading in the sense that it doesnt affect exercise as they may proporte. the idea that more intra and extracellular phosphate being available to increase ATP phosphorylation theoretically has positive implications for increasing aerobic performance, but conflictive research doesnt support it (a double blind study showed no difference in any exercise variable tested).
also phosphate loading can lead to bone mass (short term)
/edit loss in bone mass...silly me:p |
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| Orbax |
"Protein protectors: warning—your body may be burning precious muscle for energy! Put the brakes on protein breakdown with these 10 anticatabolic supplements"
http://www.findarticles.com/p/artic..._65/ai_n7581434
muscle IS fuel. Youre wrong. and ketones are metabolized fat, you dont have ketosis unless youre diabetic or fasting and wonder of wonders you dont get ketosis until the third day until your body switches from muscle to fat for survival purposes. The other thing that happens is a high acid level of the blood, but it gets pissed out so as long as youre hydrated with all this stuff you arent at risk for anything.
also everyone quit talking about ing GI carbs. GI is just how much insulin your body will dump to break it down and absorb it. Low GI is always better. Carbs are carbs as far as your body is concerned but eating white rice instead of a whole wheat bagel isnt going to do anything for you.
late at night youre going to want to eat less or your sleep will be . I would say eat a solid dinner 2 hours or so before work out, and drink a smaller protein shake before going. after getting home have some buttered toast and some soy milk or something and go to bed and then just make sure you have a good breakfast.
again, sleep is more important than how much you eat. and protein makes it HARD to sleep! at least for everyone I know :)
edit:
I wouldnt worry about the semantics of how creatine works so much. I dont know what "studies" youre talking about but Ive been watching the creatine market for the last 6 years and it has changed drastically with many positive reviews. Im sure I can pull some up for you if you pull up your studies where they double blinded the lifters.
also, like I said, they arent meant for long term use by anyone. So the bone density issue isnt really an issue when used properly.
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"also, the only dietary supplement that really has shown to be of any benefit to you is creatine"
from your first post and
and this is from y our second:
"the idea that more intra and extracellular phosphate being available to increase ATP phosphorylation theoretically has positive implications for increasing aerobic performance, but conflictive research doesnt support it "
that sounds like conflictive support!
what the are you talking about. and anyone who needs the level of detail (which is incorrect) that you are providing better be ing ripped. Very few people on earth need that haha. |
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| Vlad |
| I mentioned before that I know Im not gonna be able to finish that routine right away, and have no intentions of murdering myself to do so. Just the fact that the routine is done as such a fast pace will take alot out of me and I know Im gonna need a little more than a minute to recover in between each pair of workouts. |
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| TVG |
Orbax is right about the muscle breakdown. I know firsthand that going too long without food burns muscle. That's one of the reasons I rarely go to raves anymore.
I'm suprised you mentioned soy milk though Orbax. You couldn't pay me to eat/drink that. Full of phytoestrogens and denatured protein. |
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| Orbax |
without re reading everything, were you planning on doing cardio? Getting your body ready to deal with oxygen demands helps a lot. When I start throwing cardio sessions in, my strength and endurance tend to increase. Plus it helps trim it up a bit.
and yeah, if you do 1 minute rests max between sets and exercises...its definitely the way to do it, and youll be dripping sweat! bring a friggin towel! but man does it feel good.
Focus on the negatives, explosive contractions...youll see awesome results. Sounds like your diets pretty solid too from what I read. Im excited to see where you are in a few months, should see some huge changes. |
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| Orbax |
| quote: | Originally posted by TVG
Orbax is right about the muscle breakdown. I know firsthand that going too long without food burns muscle. That's one of the reasons I rarely go to raves anymore.
I'm suprised you mentioned soy milk though Orbax. You couldn't pay me to eat/drink that. Full of phytoestrogens and denatured protein. |
well....your stomach denatures proteins as soon as it hits it with acid hehe. Thats why you have chaperonins to refold them into biologically viable chains afterward :)
soy contains way more complete proteins than say milk and is usually a lot easier to digest and absorb. |
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| DJ_Lord |
| dont eat after 6 pm. if u must eat a yogurt. |
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