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Diet Question (pg. 6)
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| Vlad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
without re reading everything, were you planning on doing cardio? Getting your body ready to deal with oxygen demands helps a lot. When I start throwing cardio sessions in, my strength and endurance tend to increase. Plus it helps trim it up a bit.
and yeah, if you do 1 minute rests max between sets and exercises...its definitely the way to do it, and youll be dripping sweat! bring a friggin towel! but man does it feel good. |
I always do cardio, 15 mins before and 15 mins after the workout. And I have one day devoted to just doing cardio.
Trust me I know about the towel, just from regular workouts I leave the gym in a pool of my own sweat. I think the fact that I take a thermogenic before I go workout makes me sweat twice as much.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Lord
dont eat after 6 pm. if u must eat a yogurt. |
Thats just a myth. |
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| Orbax |
| the only thing Id say about eating large meals late is your body spends more time digesting than it does repairing and what not. Id definitely limit the meal sizes with my largest meal pre 6 o clock, but I tend to snack and eat until I fall asleep..or drink beer. I need something goin on! |
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| Vlad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
the only thing Id say about eating large meals late is your body spends more time digesting than it does repairing and what not. Id definitely limit the meal sizes with my largest meal pre 6 o clock, but I tend to snack and eat until I fall asleep..or drink beer. I need something goin on! |
Well I just ate my dinner, its not large, but it doesnt leave me hungry... a chicken cutlet, 2tbs of pasta sauce, 1/3 serv. of mozzarella cheese and some eggplant spread.
Im probably gonna go to the gym in an hour or so, and after Ill have my routine nightly snack... scooped out toasted (half) bagel with alittle butter and tea w/ lemon (no sugar) |
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| Vlad |
Oh man, I just remembered, theres this place accross the street from my gym that serves Buffalo and Ostrich meat. When I saw that I was like, wtf! But when I asked the person, they said that the meat is very lean and a really good alternate source of protein from the conventional stuff.
Another question, what company do you guys prefer for protein? |
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| Orbax |
| nice, thats an awesome meal plan. |
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| OLi_A |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
"also, the only dietary supplement that really has shown to be of any benefit to you is creatine"
from your first post and
and this is from y our second:
"the idea that more intra and extracellular phosphate being available to increase ATP phosphorylation theoretically has positive implications for increasing aerobic performance, but conflictive research doesnt support it "
that sounds like conflictive support!
what the are you talking about. and anyone who needs the level of detail (which is incorrect) that you are providing better be ing ripped. Very few people on earth need that haha. |
phosphate and creatine supplementation are 2 different things, thats why they appear to conflict. bone density loss is not a side effect of creatine loading, rather phosphate loading
lets not get into a fist fight over this, but monitoring the market isnt the only way to stay up to date (nor do i think it is a good way, my opinion but). lets not forget that in the states (and even over here) the supplement market is unregulated. because a company tells you one thing, doesnt make it true. the information that i have gotten you will find in exercise nutrition textbooks which are supported by research. remember, its the nerds out there who are finding new ways to supplement, not the bodybuilders
i have to be ripped to know this much info? all i provided is a scientific background to supplementation. i study exercise science (intending to do physical therapy as you yanks call it) and all the stuff i presented is just stuff we've learnt. unecessary some would think but if i end up doing postgraduate study or actually become an exercise physiologist to a sporting team/individual, this knowledge is extremely useful.
the reason i am so against supplementation is that in all the studies that i have read (note journal articles not mens health) either the results were inconclusive, or any gains made were more attributed to the placebo effect. most people will increase their volume/intensity of training when embarking on a supplement regime and any gains are actually attributed to that increase in training.
basically orbax, alot of the stuff you say is either correct or close to it, but to blast me and state that everything ive said is incorrect is just ignorant and narrow minded. just because a bodybuilder may have told you something, or a company claims that something does this or that doesnt make it true. alot of the stuff ive mentioned is correct or very close to it because some nerd (mostly from the states) has sat in a lab and proved it. |
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| OLi_A |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vlad
Trust me I know about the towel, just from regular workouts I leave the gym in a pool of my own sweat. I think the fact that I take a thermogenic before I go workout makes me sweat twice as much.
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if your going to take a thermogenic, make sure you weigh yourself before and after a work out and drink the difference in fluid. if your in a state of dehydration then any acidic environment in your body is heightened meaning recovery will be slower, water will at least bring it closer to a higher pH |
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| Orbax |
I was saying that anyone who needs the level of detail youre providing would be in the world class body builder level where they are trying to invent new ways of augmentation.
You WERE wrong about your body not using the muscle and protein chains as energy before fat and you say a lot of stuff that absolutely goes against modern body building theory and biochem.
The medical journals youve read are kind of a moot point unless you can actually reference them and show their research.
I wasnt trying to lambast you that hard, its just that you keep saying things that go against what pretty much the rest of the world agrees on.
supplements are hard on you, certain types of protein (whey, casein, egg) are metabolized differently and are also hard on you they need to be used differently, they shouldnt be used for more than a few months and generally only to break through plateaus. Eat balanced, early, and often. Count calories for what your goals are.
There are no replacements for hard work and intensity in the end, and diet is the other half.
I just really disagreed with a lot of the things you were saying, and in the end it was semantics, and my points still held absolutely true. |
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| OLi_A |
point taken, but ill stand by that the body will move towards fat before breaking down muscle for energy. granted that protein will be broken down before fat in conditions in which the enzymes required for fat metabolism are in low concentrations, but ill put it to you like this
decreases in muscle mass are on the whole due to disuse, and any fat increases in this state are again attributed to not changing your diet in accordance to this state of detraining. in a normal healthy individual, the primary use of energy is cho and fat, with protein providing less than 5% of energy use at any time. the only time the body would break down the muscular protein structure is if there is no free protein in your blood, why would you pull apart a car to get some oil out of the manifold if youve got a jar of oil next to you?
referencing is one thing, but showing research is something i cant do (you need subscriptions to view whole articles) but if you like, abstracts are useful. best search engine that is free is PubMed .
as you say, hard work and the correct diet is all you need. supplementation is only necessary when you have a deficiency. |
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| OLi_A |
had a look at the first articleagain, the day i take advice from a bodybuilding magazine (whos main source of income is from the junk that is pedalled in it and therefore articles will be pushed to favour them) is the day i die.
9% isnt a healthy fat level though (in the long term). in the long term definately you would burn muscle to get the energy, but this is mainly because there is not enough fat/glucose to supply any excess energy (or their diet is not catering for it).
like i said, healthy individuals dont have this problem because they are getting the energy they need. for example, i know of a elite athletes being in the low body fat range and not losing muscle because they eat enough food to sustain their activity (some eat around 24000-30000 kJ a day).
bodybuilding is another story. most losses in fat are through strict diets that have a WAY too big of a negative energy balance. limiting fat and not enough calories is not a good idea, especially for them because they need the fat to create those hormones (testosterone) they so desperately need. the body is truly marvelous, it will then proceed to break down other substances in order to recreaete those substances they are deficient in. protein and glucose can be reverse engineered to create them
and again to reiterate what im trying to say, the body isnt stupid. it will look for other easy avenues to get what it needs, protein being the hardest to use (and results in a negative nitrogen balance). bodybuilders will never have to worry about protein being used for energy because they dont do enough work to actually necessitate its use (contrary to what they may believe). protein mainly loss occurs in the muscle because of structural damage that is then excreted from the body.
id be more inclined to believe that you are losing muscle because you arent giving your body enough time to recover from the last workout (or group of workouts). damaging damaged muscle really gets you places:rolleyes: |
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| TVG |
| You should definitly eat after 6pm. Many serious atheletes even get up during the night to have a shake. At the very least have some sort of slow absorbing protein like casein (found in cottage cheese) before bed so you aren't in a catabolic state during the night. Only thing to limit before bed is carbs. |
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