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do you believe in, but ignnore god? (pg. 4)
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| ::TranceVanDyk:: |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
As you shouldn't thanks to the Church we are a thousand years behind in tech and research. The church destroyed a lot of Roman and Greek documents that could have well made the human race better off than it is now. Its kinda odd how people want to give more power to the church you would figure they had learned their lesson but I guess not. |
evidence??
if u study up on your history, the christian monasteries preserved otherwise lost works. they served as centers for learning, preservation of manuscripts and safe-keeping of history. the writings of many ancient authors come to us today ONLY because of monks in christian monasteries protecting it from a serfs-world where nobody really cared about learning, but only about chivalry and making money from the labour of the poor.
seems to me, you're blinded by faith in nothing. |
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| Sunsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
As you shouldn't thanks to the Church we are a thousand years behind in tech and research. The church destroyed a lot of Roman and Greek documents that could have well made the human race better off than it is now. Its kinda odd how people want to give more power to the church you would figure they had learned their lesson but I guess not. |
negative, the worst loss to human knowledge occured to the burning of the alexandrian library :( |
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| Orbax |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
negative, the worst loss to human knowledge occured to the burning of the alexandrian library :( |
That still pisses me off every time I think about it. Who the hell burns a library. |
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| Floorfiller |
well hopefully this won't piss off my religious friends on the board hehehe :p, but...here is my thoughts on the issue.
i consider the general religious population fairly ignorant. i am completely against the idea of mass religion and think that people that are religious simply because they find their lives useless without some kind of god in them pretty pathetic. that to me seems completely contrary to the entire reason for religion. i cannot understand why someone would be able to say they are a certain religion, but then choose which parts they themselves will choose to practice and abide by...that just says to me that they really have no solid belief, but instead feel the need to practice as a means of satisfying external pressures from society. i'm glad that the younger generations seem to be accepting a more relaxed approach to religion and i hope that someday we'll realize that the institution is unneeded. people that take a literal understanding of religions are the most ignorant of all, for if religion is anything useful it does establish simple moral principles and ideas that are beneficial, but to take it as anything more than that is in my opinion foolish.
that being said i think that people instead should come to a personal understanding of what life is about and what it's meanings are. isn't that what people are generally doing anyway when they decide what ideas to follow and which not to? we are perfectly capable as people to determine the best way to guide our lives within the bounds of society without the help of an artificial god and a clergy dictating it to us.
religion is one of the most frustrating topics for me because i think all rational people should come to the same conclusions based on self-investigation as i do, but for some reason that doesn't seem to be the case. i have met very few people that could justify their beliefs to me without falling back on many things including "faith", which i feel the raising of should give them a basis to question their beliefs, but instead the avoid the subject unwilling to see other viewpoints and blindly ignore intelligent reasonings for why they might be wrong. do i think everyone should believe exactly what i believe? no, but i would hope that most people could reason and be open to things beyong the scope of their own, which i feel non-religious people usually are.
religion is the only thingin this world that for some reason does not need justification from people and i can't stand that. if people believe its wrong to question religion you are an idiot. we can question everything. it is not as many would think a sign of being unfaithful, but instead it is a path to a stronger faith if you still determine it to be the truth, but not quesitoning it to begin with and just blindly accepting things is completely ridiculous. |
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| Sunsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
That still pisses me off every time I think about it. Who the hell burns a library. |
ehh, i believe it was an accident |
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| ::TranceVanDyk:: |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
That still pisses me off every time I think about it. Who the hell burns a library. |
the romans? |
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| Orbax |
FF:
I guess in the end it comes down to philosophy. "religion" is a loaded word, and its definition with societal context is an overwhelming task that thousands of authors tackle every year.
As a philsophy, however, I feel the New Testament with Grace, Love, Compassion...well the Fruit of the Spirit :
love;
joy;
peace;
patience;
kindness;
goodness;
faithfulness;
gentleness;
self-control.
are the key to the whole religion. I guess in essence, religion means relationship to me and the way to establish and enrich that relationship is through the philosophy of the Fruit.
Ive also been getting in to Zen and the idea of one-ness and nothingness...existence basically and trying to understand that in many ways you have to be a tad fatalistic and just hope for the best outcome to events.
Like someone goes speeding by and instead of getting angry honestly think to yourself "I hope he gets where hes trying to go" and start giving people the benefit of the doubt etc..
I also think the wording of the Fruit of the Spirit is interesting. It is Fruit not FruitS. Basically all of those are required to get your badge of the Spirit hehe. Nobody is perfect, but if we can try to focus a little less inwardly, maybe we dont need to be :D |
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| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
FF:
I guess in the end it comes down to philosophy. "religion" is a loaded word, and its definition with societal context is an overwhelming task that thousands of authors tackle every year.
As a philsophy, however, I feel the New Testament with Grace, Love, Compassion...well the Fruit of the Spirit :
love;
joy;
peace;
patience;
kindness;
goodness;
faithfulness;
gentleness;
self-control.
are the key to the whole religion. I guess in essence, religion means relationship to me and the way to establish and enrich that relationship is through the philosophy of the Fruit.
Ive also been getting in to Zen and the idea of one-ness and nothingness...existence basically and trying to understand that in many ways you have to be a tad fatalistic and just hope for the best outcome to events.
Like someone goes speeding by and instead of getting angry honestly think to yourself "I hope he gets where hes trying to go" and start giving people the benefit of the doubt etc..
I also think the wording of the Fruit of the Spirit is interesting. It is Fruit not FruitS. Basically all of those are required to get your badge of the Spirit hehe. Nobody is perfect, but if we can try to focus a little less inwardly, maybe we dont need to be :D |
yeah i agree. i mean i think people should just have a philosophy which they live by...i just don't believe in the popular mass religions. i mean why can't we look at these historical figures like jesus, mohammad, siddhartha gautma, whoever and just think...wow i like some of the things about there philosophies...i like what he said about this, but i don't necessarily agree with this...so this is what i believe and it's how i'm going to live my life. why do we always have in corporate a divine element into it? |
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| Moongoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
Thats really ignorant.
Really. Really. Ignorant. Im trying to figure out if you're saying that to piss people off, or if you seriously don't know any better.
Either way, wow. You found that sentence. |
Well im in a rather bad ing mood today so one of the reasons to post that was to piss somebody off. Since it looks that it worked at least a little im feeling slightly better now. Actualy my mood has improved to a point that ill say that i have expressed myself wery badly. I was thinking about all the god pulled of in the old testament (sorry all ye followers of jesus el savior christ), i guess gos record in the new testament is a bit cleaner but he still shows a wery irresponsible behavior, something i would not expect from an almight deity.
And seriously how can anyone belive that god is mercyful when you look at the thats going on around you. Where was god when the hurricane hit new orleans? I mean he used to come down to earth and talk to people, but now he cant lift his almighty finger and help save some pour souls that lost everything. This is poor managment and it doenst look good on his record. Or maybe those fundies are right and it was god himself that destroyed NO, which would just prove that he is still the same old sadisctic guy that we got to know and love in the old testament.
Either way we look at it, he is either incompetent and/or lazy or he likes making all of our lives miserable neither of which is really worship material. |
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| stevieboy32808 |
You know one thing I don't get is evolution. The Bible says God created the earth and all of its creatures in 6 days and reserved the seventh day for rest. He then created Adam and then Eve from Adam's ribs, I think. According to that we lived in conjuction with these creatures. As many of you know The Bible is written proof that all of this existed if you are religious in any sort of way.
Although if you look at the scientific version of things dinosaurs ruled the earth until they got wiped out 64 million years ago by some large flaming meteor. Then millions of years we later humans showed up. The proof here is in the dinosaur structures that you see in museums and the carbon dating used to test the age of those bones.
My question is what is the truly correct sequence of events? |
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| Moongoose |
This is the absolute trouth, visit www.vengaza.org for more detail.
| quote: | Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.
Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease. |
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| Orbax |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moongoose
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My answer would be that of C.S. Lewis in his book "The Problem of Pain" explaining that in order to communicate and grow we need not only a physical world to identify one another, but a natural one that we cannot control or change to suit our need because if one person changed matter to make it so he was walking down hill then another man would have to walk up it.
Its the most basic answer to people wondering "who do bad things happen" its because the machine was set in motion to be self perpetuating and evolving and tampering with that would defeat the whole idea of free will. If you had no choice but to love your wife, would that be love? We have a world of options, we can do what we want, and yeah...its a natural mechanical world governed by natural laws...and we just kind of have to operate within the strictures of a natural environment.
but mainly, CS Lewis answers the question of pain and bad happening, and tons of other people have explained the free will arguments... |
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