|
Girls' suicide pact shocks France (pg. 7)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jem_hadar
So... who cares if they could have tried harder. That they could be happy later on in life is not a the point. They are not happy NOW and this solved their problem NOW. And in the grave they are not lamenting their decision. They just made choice and the one they chose was a perfectly fair one. |
I do dislike quitters.
There's always someone else who is having a tier life than you, yet somehow they still live when they probably have more better reasons to not live.
| quote: |
Just because I dont want them to die does not mean I feel they dont have the right to commit suicide. Ex. I want them to live. They want to die. I wish for myself that they'd chose to live, but I fully realize it's not my call and I have NO PLACE to say otherwise. It's like if you had a friend who got a sweet job offer in DC. I sure as hell dont want him to leave, he's my friend... but its not my call whether he does or not. Can I truly fault my friend for taking that job opportunity - OF COURSE NOT! This is similar, IMO, only the chooses are more permanent and the situation more dire. But that does not make this comparison any less value. I believe the situation and analysis is the same. |
Nope. There is a big difference between killing oneself and taking a job. |
|
|
| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
Yeah dude, I hear you about the choice...but would you not be the extremely valiant and thoughtful person you are and help convince someone not to kill themselves if they told you that was their intention? I KNOW you'd help them out, which is why I'm kinda confused at your acceptance at their choosing to die!!!
|
That whut i think ur missing in my posts Fay.
Yes I would try to convince them otherwise, but that DOES NOT MEAN that I dont feel they have the freakin' right to kill themselves.
what I would do and whut i feel they have the right to do are different issues. they have no bearing on eachother.
just bc i would will them to live does not mean i would fault them for dying if they so chose. |
|
|
| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jem_hadar
Again, Fay, so? You cant discount their choice bc 2 months later they *might* have made a different one. Plus, is it fair to make them stomach those extra 2 months (which, btw, I might add is NO certainty... it could have been 2 years or 4 yeas, or maybe only 4 weeks...) We always make decisions in the here and now we may not have made if they'd been presented at different points in time. This is one example. There is not necessarily anything wrong w/ that.. Coulda whent one way, coulda whent another. Both are fine. |
You make it sound like choosing between two ties for your job interview. I have trouble talking about the value of life in such a loose manner...
| quote: | Originally posted by Jem_hadar
Just because I dont want them to die does not mean I feel they dont have the right to commit suicide. Ex. I want them to live. They want to die. I wish for myself that they'd chose to live, but I fully realize it's not my call and I have NO PLACE to say otherwise. |
But I honestly don't think I'm applying my beliefs onto them...I sincerely want them to live for THEIR OWN GOOD!!! Once they've tasted the beauty in life (which, once they change their environment) can EASILY happen; just change some of the negative variables surrounding them! There's always a chance!!! Especially with youth...find someone who loves you and will die for you and you'll be set for life!
| quote: | Originally posted by Jem_hadar
It's like if you had a friend who got a sweet job offer in DC. I sure as hell dont want him to leave, he's my friend... but its not my call whether he does or not. Can I truly fault my friend for taking that job opportunity - OF COURSE NOT! This is similar, IMO, only the chooses are more permanent and the situation more dire. But that does not make this comparison any less value. I believe the situation and analysis is the same. |
Dude, what you said (I highlighted in bold) TOTALLY makes the two examples completely diff!!!! DEATH DOES NOT EQUAL DIFFERENT CITY!!!!
Anyway, this is one of those lovely circle discussions, so I'm gonna head to bed...tomorrow's first day of fasting so I feel like I need to sleep with a peaceful conscience tonight! ;)
G'night, bro! :toothless |
|
|
| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
I meant that perhaps "world peace" was something that you thought was a universal principle. That you could universally say that death and destruction is wrong, and peace is right. I wanted to connect your belief in this principle to suicide and try to prove that suicide is counterproductive. I failed. :p |
i dont feel death is wrong - its a natural thing. everyone dies. death is merely the bane to life, another state (or lack of a state of existencing, in my point of view).
its not wrong to go to or embrace death. its only another way of thinking. we all can chose to value (or not value) life as we see fit if you ask me. |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jem_hadar
No it is not. Suicide is NOT done to inflict pain on those who love you - that is merely a by-product of it. It is done to save yourself from your existence.
I deem those who want me to continue to live in such a tormented state to be selfish, since their actions (denying my absolute right and eligibility to kill myself) are afflicting pain on me since they are stopping me from being free of this feeling. They are causing me to remain in pain! |
When one does an action, one should take all possible consequences into account.
Just because the 'by product' occurs when one means not to have that happen, that does not absolve them of any responsibility.
| quote: |
Again, that's not the intent, but a sad and unfortunate affect of their decision. At what point is it fair to think of yourself. Life is not lived ONLY for others. It is lived for yourself and it is wonderful if you chose to care about others. Since life is lived for yourself, you have the absolute right to continue w/ it or end it. Certainly some decide NOT to commit suicide when they think about how their family or friends will react in the aftermath. |
I do not believe I disputed the 'right' of one to terminate one's life. I am arguing the... essence of such action that it is a selfish act.
| quote: | If that is an issue for you and you decide not to do it accordingly, good. But don't look down on someone else who's priorities lie elsewhere. That person is being no more selfish than a person who would have them continue to live and continue to feel such pain.
-Jem. |
Of course I can look down on people who choose the easy way out.
Why should I have as same regard towards people who don't give the same amount of effort as those who work hard, and live hard? |
|
|
| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
I meant laziness in their desire to END their life. Rather than proactively look for a solution to get out of their problems by leaving their family/home/country they chose to take the easy way out and just end their life.
|
See, maybe they could have found a solution if they looked harder or waited longer. But they didn't.
They weren't forced to to wait. They did nothing wrong by not waiting.
Their options were 1) act now, kill themselves and be free of their torment, or 2) wait, and hope that maybe in the future they'd be free of their torment in a way that would let them live still and experience further joys of life.
Both are fair options and I dont see why you think 1) is wrong. I can see why it doesn't look appealing to you or someone else, but not looknig appealing to you is different from making a statement that it was a bad decision or that it was a wrong decision.
bad from your standpoint maybe, but not from theirs. |
|
|
| Tag |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGrooves
thousands of ppl die of stavation and s around the world and no one gives a flying . those ppl dont want to die they want to live but yet they end op dead. these 2 dumbasses take their own life cos of w0tever reason and the whole country is shocked. give me a ing break. |
Having a very close family member who killed himself...without anyone suspecting something was wrong, that changes ones view on this. To say what you just did is a very ignorant thing to say and you make yourself look childish. |
|
|
| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Nope. There is a big difference between killing oneself and taking a job. |
only in the gravity of the situation. that comment was meant to refer to my thought process as the friend losing someone. either a) losing them permanently thru death or b) losing them from my life bc they are moving away.
only the gravity of the loss is different... in either case i have no right to tell them and EXPECT them to do as i wish. I cant state what i wish they'd do (not die or not move away), but i cant expect them to do it for me.
they gotta do whut they gotta do for THEMSELVES.
| quote: | | There's always someone else who is having a tier life than you, yet somehow they still live when they probably have more better reasons to not live. |
And good for them, that's their aboslute right, to choose to live despite their ty-ass life.
It's also their right to die just the same.
If I want to die, I shouldn't have to determine if I have a ter life than every other person on this earth. If it's my desire to die, then I should be free to die at my own choice. |
|
|
| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
When one does an action, one should take all possible consequences into account.
|
By that account, you should, say, NEVER EVER do drugs if you know it would hurt your parents to find out their kids do drugs.
You can only reasonably concern yourself so far with consequences of your actions. |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jem_hadar
By that account, you should, say, NEVER EVER do drugs if you know it would hurt your parents to find out their kids do drugs.
You can only reasonably concern yourself so far with consequences of your actions. |
True.
But you should know bloody well that if you're going to kill yourself, someone's going to be a tad be hurt by it, right? Pretty obvious if you ask me. |
|
|
| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
True.
But you should know bloody well that if you're going to kill yourself, someone's going to be a tad be hurt by it, right? Pretty obvious if you ask me. |
Them being hurt, I dont see how that should BY DEFAULT automatically mean you should not commit suicide (I'm sure with many it does stop them). You need to think of yourself too - you have to be fair to yourself. |
|
|
| Jem_hadar |
Im offically going to bed, arguing in here is stressing me out - and I dont wanna sleep with my mind worked up.
time to read a few chapters of A Game of Thrones before passing.
Nite -Jem. |
|
|
|
|
