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Chord Progression in Epic/Anthem/Progressive Trance (pg. 2)
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Biatchzxz
I am having SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Much trouble with Chords in general i do research and research all over but still dont get it.. Either it just doesnt sound right to me.


My Root Note is B minor. i just dont know where to go from there

I under stand the scale in B minor. , But now i problem is what keys on the keyboard to play as a progression. i am a lilttle new to Music theory in general. If anyone has any idea of a nice progression in that Key Let me know please
DigiNut
quote:
Originally posted by RIPassion
I've been a jazz drumer (among other styles) for a while now, and two of my teachers have learned at the University of North Texas (Jazz school; very venerable), which I'd be willing to bet has a nice website with some helpful ways to get you started. :)

Texas eh? That's a bit of a drive. :p I will check out the site though, thanks!
Derivative
quote:
My Root Note is B minor. i just dont know where to go from there

I under stand the scale in B minor. , But now i problem is what keys on the keyboard to play as a progression. i am a lilttle new to Music theory in general. If anyone has any idea of a nice progression in that Key Let me know please


your root note cant be b minor - that doesnt make sense.

your root note can only be 1 of 12 semi tones in an octave.

i.e. it can only be C, C#, D, Eb, E, F, F#, G, Ab, A, Bb or B.

where # = sharp

and b = flat

these notes will be enharmonic - i.e. a A# is the same as an Bb. although if you write out both an A# major and a Bb major scale then it just seems to make more sense to remember it from Bb - the steps just look easier to follow, alphabetically even though they are the same.

hang on a second and ill post a huge work in progress FAQ ive been working on since moving to dublin...it should clear up the issue of chords and scales. it'll be in a different thread since alotof people seem to have trouble getting the hang of the theory side of music...
Tech0rz

Basically the more you learn about how different music is 'built' the easier it will be to come up with your own.

Just one way you can go about it:

I start this process with just one instrument, maybe a violin from EDIROL Orchestral just to get the melody down.

1. Start with a single 8, 16 or 32 bar melody in the suggested I,III,V,VI and VII formality, making sure it sounds natural when it loops back to the root. For the sake of explaining, this will eventually end up as the catchy riff that sits on top at some points in the track.

2. Create another melodic line (Counterpoint), that goes below the line in step one, this is where you can give it a real definite vibe, just experiment. This line could be transformed into some sort of arpeggio.

3. Next create the bassline, again just basic notes that sit naturally under the rest of the other notes. You can easily experiment though.

So now you have a chord progression, but you didn't do a chord at a time. This is how I do it, might not work for some people. I do it this way because I turn each part of a melody into a different element in someway, and when creating a chord progession a chord at a time, the single lines often don't come out as a defined melody to work with.
RichieV
quote:
Originally posted by krivi
there is no formula,


Want to Bet ?


The formula is

Tonic -> Predominant - > Dominant -> Tonic

Tonic = I VI (III)
Predominant = II IV (III)
Dominant = V VII

95% of pop music since the last 400 years has been following this formula.
RichieV
quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut

It's the theoretical framework that I've been trying to learn; jazz music definitely does not follow any of the classical principles of harmony or counterpoint so I was assuming it followed some other principles.

.


jazz was founded on the exact same theorectical groundwork as classical music. They all follow tonal syntax.
DigiNut
quote:
Originally posted by RichieV
Tonic = I IV (III)
Predominant = II IV (III)
Dominant = V VII

That doesn't even make sense. Chords are written by their root. Tonic is just I, "Predominant" doesn't even exist - it's "Subdominant" and it's IV not II, and Dominant is just V.

If you were trying to specify that these are major chords then that's done by capitalizing the letters, which you already did. The notes you specified for the subdominant chord don't make sense either - do you have any idea what a "II III IV" chord would sound like?


quote:
Originally posted by RichieV
jazz was founded on the exact same theorectical groundwork as classical music. They all follow tonal syntax.

Uh... are you trying to impress people with big words that are incorrectly spelled?

I studied the "classical" side of instrumental music and music theory for over 10 years. Jazz may share certain fundamentals and principles but it is a completely different beast.

If you don't have anything useful to offer then STFU.
RichieV
At first i was just going to call you an idiot but then i suppose it wouldn't make me look to good so i will try to explain as best as possibly why you are wrong and why you should not be giving people any advice in theory ever again.

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
That doesn't even make sense. Chords are written by their root. Tonic is just I, "Predominant" doesn't even exist - it's "Subdominant" and it's IV not II, and Dominant is just V.


Tonic in harmonic analysis is a group of chords that can begin a music phrase. These chords include I , III , and IV. Altho III rarely begins a phrase , the chord is considered an expansion of I because it shares 2 common tones with I. The reason that all the letters are capital is because this syntax applies to both major and minors keys.

An example of VI acting as a tonic can be seen everywhere including about 90% of trance songs. But for a specific example , you can listen to Beethoven "Waldstein" Sonata.

The VI is also used in deceptive cadences when V goes to VI instead of the usual1 1.

And yes II is a predominant. I mean if it isn't , where the hell would it fit ? I don't even know what to say to that one other than you are kind of an idiot.
quote:

If you were trying to specify that these are major chords then that's done by capitalizing the letters, which you already did. The notes you specified for the subdominant chord don't make sense either - do you have any idea what a "II III IV" chord would sound like?


like i already explained , the reason i put all the chords in capitalised letters is because both can be applied in either major or minor keys. I don't see the use in putting both since they are pretty much the same. But i suppose idiots like you just don't see that logic so i apologise.
quote:

Uh... are you trying to impress people with big words that are incorrectly spelled?

I studied the "classical" side of instrumental music and music theory for over 10 years. Jazz may share certain fundamentals and principles but it is a completely different beast.

well now you are out right just lying. It is obvious that someone so so little of grasp on music thoery like yourself has never studied theory at all. JUst the fact that you don't even think II is a predominant shows to me that you have no ing idea what you are talking about.

And jazz does have the same frame work. WHich is what i basically said. If you look at later romantic music like deBussy , you will see all those 9ths , 11ths , 13ths .... at work. Just like in jazz.
And theoretical isn't a big word for most people. But i suppose it impresses ass clowns like you.
quote:

If you don't have anything useful to offer then STFU.


IN closing i suppose i would like to say you chose the wrong person to get into an argument about music theory. And you are also an idiot for outright lying and making up your own facts. Shame on you.
RichieV
here is a little clip of something i put together that demonstrates everything i said in action


http://www3.telus.net/joanmey/choir-01b.mp3

II as a predominant
VI as a tonic

you get the idea f*#kface
TVG
where's diginut?

DigiNut
quote:
Originally posted by RichieV

II is called the supertonic. And VI is submediant.

LOL, there goes your whole argument. Then again, your whole argument was essentially based on childish name-calling to begin with...


Edit:
Before you start arguing, I dug up some corroborating sources on google:
Wikipedia (scroll down to "other modern usage by English-speaking people")
Gary Ewer's Music Theory
MiBAC: Scale Degrees
Reference.com definition for scale degree
RichieV
no what you are refering to are the names given to chords built on the root of a scale . Like your reference say , those names are given to individual scare degrees, not the chords built on them.

This has nothing to do with harmonic theory. I am talking about harmony theory , not the theory they teach in grade 3 piano conservatory piano.

So yes , the scale degree of a chord formed on A in c major is called that , but it fulfills a tonic role which means it is part of the tonic group.


There are 3 groups , tonic , predominant , and dominant.
Which is what this whole post was about in the first place. Harmonic theory.



PS : And you are the one that started the name calling. I'm just a whole lot better at it. Just like music theory you dumb piece of .
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