|
Men want say in unplanned pregnancy (pg. 4)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by tribu
And why are women devoid of the risk? Yes, they have to deal with the physical act of carrying and having the baby, as well as the recovery time after. But why can women lie about their ability to get pregnant, have their sexual desires met and still have all of the say in pregnancy. If you went to the store to buy an item and you bought it because of it's promised feature only to find out it doesnt have it, and then have the seller hold all power over returning the money to you, you would be outraged. Not to mention these tactics are illegal. It's a weak analogy but apt.
To condone a woman lying about her ablitiy to conceive because a man wants to have sex is a pretty weak argument in my book because women achieve the same pleasure from sex. It relies on social conceptions of men and women that are often commited as archaic but are useful defenses to fall back on in an unsure situation.
And, if you get into a vehicle and you're in an accident that someone else caused they are held accountable. That seems to fit this story quite well... |
I'm sorry, but I don't think using the argument that they "lied" about their ability to get pregnant is a valid one.
We know that one plus one equals two. This is common knowledge. There is no other answer, no matter what happens.
As human beings, we know for a fact, that when a man and a woman have sex, a baby can occur. This is REGARDLESS of any and all exceptions.
When you have sex with a woman who has said she "can't get pregnant", you are taking those odds into your own hands. You know 100% that sex makes babies, but you choose to believe that it will not happen because someone says so. If it happens, it was your decision to take that chance.
EDIT:
How are women devoid of risk?
I could sleep with a man who had told me that he had a vasectomy, and then become pregnant.
I didn't want to get pregnant, but guess what... too bad for me. I made the choice of taking the chance.
Might I mention that this would all come down to "he said, she said" debates.
How is a man going to prove that a woman lied about her ability to get pregnant? What are the chances that a man isn't going to lie about her saying something like that, just to get out of paying support?
For gawd sakes. If you made the concious choice of having sex with someone, you are responsible for what comes of that. |
|
|
| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
I'm sorry, but I don't think using the argument that they "lied" about their ability to get pregnant is a valid one.
We know that one plus one equals two. This is common knowledge. There is no other answer, no matter what happens.
As human beings, we know for a fact, that when a man and a woman have sex, a baby can occur. This is REGARDLESS of any and all exceptions.
When you have sex with a woman who has said she "can't get pregnant", you are taking those odds into your own hands. You know 100% that sex makes babies, but you choose to believe that it will not happen because someone says so. If it happens, it was your decision to take that chance. |
so if i tell you that i had a vasectomy...in affect telling you that i can't have children. we have sex and you get pregnant and you are against abortion...
whoops...too bad i guess |
|
|
| tribu |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Two men shoot another man.
They shoot him at the EXACT same time, and both bullets have the same effect. The combination of both the shots results in the man dying. If only one had shot him, he would not have died.
One man says "I didn't want him to die"
and the other says "I did".
Now, should the man who didn't want him to die not be held responsible for the mans death? |
If he can prove that he was professionally trained (lol) and that he made an effort to shoot the man in a non-lethal spot, as well as that he had consent to shoot the man, than he should be held less responsible. The idea is that he made an effort not to kill the man and the other man's bullet killed him. There are lots of extenuating circumstances (just like a pregnancy) so a vague generalization only partially solves this argument.
I understand you're from Canada, so please also try to understand how ed up child support laws are here. It's definitely slanted to a female bias and many women use it to their advantage. Men are only asking for fair recourse, especially in response to Roe.
| quote: | Originally posted by Floorfiller
so if i tell you that i had a vasectomy...in affect telling you that i can't have children. we have sex and you get pregnant and you are against abortion...
whoops...too bad i guess |
Exactly. A man can similarly lie, but the woman retains all the decision making power. It's an unfair system. Are men going to start to have to withold sex as a weapon? |
|
|
| CranberryJuice |
well to me it's simple ....a guy and a girl have sex ....the condom broke or whatever ....the girl gets pregant
2 solutions
the girl decides to abort
the girl wants to keep the baby though the guy doesn't want ......since it's the girl choice the guy is out and doesn't hae to pay for anything and shouldnt be liable for the baby ..... |
|
|
| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Floorfiller
so if i tell you that i had a vasectomy...in affect telling you that i can't have children. we have sex and you get pregnant and you are against abortion...
whoops...too bad i guess |
Funny I made an edit to my last post including this idea. |
|
|
| tribu |
| I'm not trying to debate that you should take responsibility for what can happen as a result of sex. I'm saying that men and women should make that decision together; it should not solely lie in the hands of the woman. The result of this case could change that. |
|
|
| Aquarian |
| quote: | Originally posted by CranberryJuice
well to me it's simple ....a guy and a girl have sex ....the condom broke or whatever ....the girl gets pregant
2 solutions
the girl decides to abort
the girl wants to keep the baby though the guy doesn't want ......since it's the girl choice the guy is out and doesn't hae to pay for anything and shouldnt be liable for the baby ..... |
Precisely.
Theresa I get your argument, but you have to factor in the possibility of abortion. Because of this, then you can't say that sex always has the possibility of ending up in a baby, because that can be prevented. So if it's the woman's choice NOT to prevent it, then I don't see why the man should have to suffer because of her choice. That is completely unfair. However if both agree not to abort, then the man should pay his share. In this case it lets the woman have control over her own body (which she should) but without stepping onto the man's rights. Anything less I'd call sexism. |
|
|
| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by tribu
I'm not trying to debate that you should take responsibility for what can happen as a result of sex. I'm saying that men and women should make that decision together; it should not solely lie in the hands of the woman. |
Like I said, as unfair as it may seem, that is the reality of life.
It is her body, and therefore she has full rights to do as she pleases with it.
You take that chance when you sleep with a girl. When you stick your penor in her, you are signing away the right to your sperm.
If you don't want that to happen, make damn sure that she doesn't get pregnant, or don't have sex at all. |
|
|
| Aureus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aquarian
I say if the man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, then the woman should have full fiscal responsibility. That's only fair. |
+1,000,000
both parties should sign an official notary or something of similar standing which can be upheld in a court of law, saying that the male party cannot/will not be held responsible for the financial side of things |
|
|
| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Funny I made an edit to my last post including this idea. |
yeah i saw it :p
i just think there is a difference between trusting someone who says "yeah i'm on the pill" vs someone who has supposedly had a medical procedure so that they can't have children.
let's say that you are in a relationship with a long time boyfriend. you guys have had sex all the time in the past. it's obviously someone you trust because you've dated them for a long time. he tells you he's going to have a vasectomy so you guys don't have to use the condom anymore. you believe him...you guys have sex...and you get pregnant.
now lets say abortion is against your religion or something. is that a fair situation?
a similar situation could arise with a woman. say i'm dating a girl for a long time. we've had sex in the past, but she tells me she is going to get her tubes tied. we have sex after she had this supposed operation...but in actuality, she lied to me because she wants to get married and thinks the child will be leverage to get me to pop the question. is that a fair situation?
in both situations...we're not talking about a one night stand...we're talking about a trusted relationship that has been manipulated into giving the other person what they want. |
|
|
| tribu |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Like I said, as unfair as it may seem, that is the reality of life.
It is her body, and therefore she has full rights to do as she pleases with it.
You take that chance when you sleep with a girl. When you stick your penor in her, you are signing away the right to your sperm.
If you don't want that to happen, make damn sure that she doesn't get pregnant, or don't have sex at all. |
I understand that this is the reality of life. This court case is a chance for us to change that reality into something this is more fair and amicable. She takes the same chance when she accepts said penor inside her. They should have an equal say in the matter. Anything less is unacceptable in my eyes.
EDIT: I also said that women are devoid of the risk of having someone make a life-altering decision without the need of their consultation or opinion. Not that they are devoid of the risk of an unwanted pregnancy |
|
|
| Theresa |
In my mind, I do not care AT ALL what the situation is. If you CONSENTUALLY have sex with someone, you are taking the chance of anything happening in result of that.
Because YOU chose to take that chance, you should be responsible for those actions.
You know prior, that if a woman gets pregnant, she will have 100% choice in what happens. You inadvertantly accept these terms when you have sex.
If you decide to believe someone in whatever they say to you, or trust that an operation will keep you immune to biology, that is YOUR choice, and by making that choice, you are accepting all of the chances of that choice, whether you like them or not.
If you are all so hell bent in not having this happen, do not have sex. You know how it works, and if you are unable to accept the consequences of your own actions, then don't take those actions. |
|
|
|
|
