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Sven Väth, pop trance & dinosaurs (pg. 7)
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| paranoik0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by andreas1999
i saw eric prydz play at The Cross and the house music he plays is so much closer to 'trance' than the fluffy pop trance we have today. |
i indeed always thought his Pryda tracks were quite trancy overall.. |
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| renttresnor |
| quote: | | Yes. Listen to Seven Ways by Paul Van Dyk, from 1996, for an easy example. |
No, I wasn't saying that, you daft...
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Have you actually listened to much trance music? If so then you'd realise that there's no technical qualifier for progressive trance to be progressive. I don't even think that prog trance and prog house shared a defining characteristic when the names were coined. "Progressive" just meant forward-thinking. |
Yeah, the defining characteristic of prog trance was..well I already said what it was.
| quote: | | A new sound of house and trance. The first progressive house track- Not Forgotten- didn't have that note changing bassline at all. |
Why should it?
| quote: | | Progressive trance was just the name applied to the new sound of trance music that arrived in the mid 1990s- it was different to the earlier "classic" trance sound, |
It was different, how...oh, I already said that.
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so it was given a chin-stroking label. I've heard hundreds of prog trance tracks, and there's no particular musical element that connects them. |
Then you're probably not listening to progressive trance half the time.
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So what help exactly would music theory be in this debate, again |
For starters it would make some of the people here look less retarded.
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
so go ahead and specify those characteristics, and while you're at it, mind defining ambient, techno, electro, breakbeat, etc? |
WEll i'll be. |
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| andreas1999 |
| quote: | Originally posted by andreas1999
the type of trance (i think) you're talking about already exists, minimal or techno (not the "20-loops all packed in to one and then a bassline"-style techno). i saw eric prydz play at The Cross and the house music he plays is so much closer to 'trance' than the fluffy pop trance we have today.
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funny, after posting that i saw this:
| quote: | | Mixmag dubbed minimal techno ‘the hottest sound in dance’ this week in a four page feature asking ‘why are we going mad for squeaks and bleeps?’ |
http://www.trustthedj.com/SKRUFFF/n...hp?news_id=5188 |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by renttresnor
No, I wasn't saying that, you daft...
Yeah, the defining characteristic of prog trance was..well I already said what it was.
Why should it?
It was different, how...oh, I already said that.
Then you're probably not listening to progressive trance half the time.
For starters it would make some of the people here look less retarded.
WEll i'll be. |
Hate to tell you, but you look like the biggest retard right now... |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Trance is a form of music best characterized by quarter note drum patterns, and 16th/32nd note rhythm synthesizer patterns. It has a meter of 4/4, with a quarter note bassdrum acting as metronome, and quarter note high-hat hits on upbeats. This unwavering drum mechanism may be constantly tweaked with for effect, with the Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release (ADSR) all given liberal treatment. The tempo is generally around 130-158 beats per minute (bpm).
The arrangement consists mostly of a repeating 32nd note sequencing arpeggio, and a bass section of whole notes usually drifting through the aeolian or natural minor scale. Harmonic structure is typically minimalist, with often no more than 2-4 chords. Iterations of the i-iv-v progression (A minor, D minor, and E minor, for example) lend a dark feel by eschewing major chords entirely. Additional rhythm sections are added and subtracted every 16 measures (sometimes 8, and sometimes 32) to add weight and anticipation to the composition. The bass chord will usually change every 4 measures.
There is a lead synth, and it will be a simple minor scale melody of 8th notes, looping every 4 measures (some have 2, some have 8. Some even have 16). |
so i guess the following are not trance, because they contradict a varying number of these rules:
4 Voice - Light
Air Liquide - Liquid Air
Cybertrax - Journey to the Center of the Mind
Cybertrax - Spinning
Dave Clarke - Spring
Dave Clarke - Summer
Freddie Fresh - Fantasia
Genetic - Transmission
Major North - Annihilate
Pollution vol 1 - To Help You Breathe More
Ramin - I Can't Understand
Sandman - Templedrum
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if you're gonna start being selective about the parts of the definition that need apply to any particular track, dont forget i can do the same:
| quote: | | Trance is a form of music best characterized by quarter note drum patterns, and 16th/32nd note rhythm synthesizer patterns. It has a meter of 4/4, with a quarter note bassdrum acting as metronome, and quarter note high-hat hits on upbeats. This unwavering drum mechanism may be constantly tweaked with for effect, with the Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release (ADSR) all given liberal treatment. The tempo is generally around 130-158 beats per minute (bpm). |
hmm, for some reason this describes techno pretty well, remove the lower bpm limit and house music is in aswell, remove metronome and we have breakbeat, etc.
quite a solid definition you have there.... :rolleyes:
and where are the definitions for ambient, techno, and electro? |
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| Psy-T |
| I'm still waiting for your reply O Enlightened One :o |
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| renttresnor |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
so i guess the following are not trance, because they contradict a varying number of these rules:
4 Voice - Light
Air Liquide - Liquid Air
Cybertrax - Journey to the Center of the Mind
Cybertrax - Spinning
Dave Clarke - Spring
Dave Clarke - Summer
Freddie Fresh - Fantasia
Genetic - Transmission
Major North - Annihilate
Pollution vol 1 - To Help You Breathe More
Ramin - I Can't Understand
Sandman - Templedrum
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I suppose not! Unless they contradict a part that says "generally" or "usually" or something. Because there are always exceptions to a rule. But exceptions don't prove a rule!
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hmm, for some reason this describes techno pretty well, remove the lower bpm limit and house music is in aswell, remove metronome and we have breakbeat, etc. |
Yeah, if you omit the second paragraph...:rolleyes:
At its inception, trance wasn't very different from techno anyway.
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and where are the definitions for ambient, techno, and electro? |
Oh, they're out there if they're out there. Though electro is less about a concrete definition, and more about an abstract concept. That's just because of the ideas that were the backdrop to its invention and the resulting sounds that came from that. More than any other electronic music, it's more about an idea or ideas than anything else.
It's not my job to define anything anyway, and I don't know why you think it is... |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by renttresnor
No, I wasn't saying that, you daft... |
Then what was your point?
| quote: | | Yeah, the defining characteristic of prog trance was..well I already said what it was. |
According to who? A good deal of what is accepted progressive trance does not use the altering bassline at all. Ishkur identified that as one of the common features of prog trance, but he's also defined prog trance as trance with a breakdown. Neither of which are universal applicants: they're just common features of progressive trance.
I was just wiping out the possible idea that changing bassline = progressive. "Progressive" simply meant a new, forward-thinking sound, with no single technical music element defining it.
| quote: | | It was different, how...oh, I already said that. |
And as I said, it was different in many ways. Dark & Long (Dark Train) is almost universally considered progressive trance, and it has neither a lead-introducing breakdown nor a changing bassline. However it sounded much different to trance in 1994 and so, like Leftfield's early productions, it gets named progressive trance to show the progression in sound.
| quote: | | Then you're probably not listening to progressive trance half the time. |
That's a feeble argument. You have no credibility to oust the common consensus of thousands of informed individuals. A lot of whom who are floating around this forum. They've been listening to trance longer than you and I, they know their history... and they call it progressive trance.
| quote: | | For starters it would make some of the people here look less retarded. |
They'd look doubly retarded because they'd be wasting their time using a field of expertise that is not essential to the debate. Not as if you're one to do that. |
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| Zombie0915 |
| quote: | Originally posted by andreas1999
i could never fall in to trance by this pop trance we have today ('jump the next train .. take a ticket to the other side ..'), too much cheese dripping off of me by the time the track ends to fall in to anything. i still like this track but talking about this kind of trance music and 'hypnosis' in the same sentence is just wrong.
the type of trance (i think) you're talking about already exists, minimal or techno (not the "20-loops all packed in to one and then a bassline"-style techno). i saw eric prydz play at The Cross and the house music he plays is so much closer to 'trance' than the fluffy pop trance we have today.
a great example of trance (to me) is Elektrochemie - Don't Go. It won't be labeled as trance but play that track in a dark room, lots of people and loud volume, and you're much closer to being hypnotized than listening to some girl singing about lost love or satellites :)
BUT i still like the lyrics from 'as the rush comes'. |
I agree, too much compromise with popular engagement and not enough repitition in like jump the nest train, If it were up to me it wouldn't be called trance music. My definition doesn't do to well at describing music that is commonly called trance, if refers more to the mindset type trance than the style of music called trance. I agree that a minimal or techno track is more likely to do it, but I feel that the throbbing banging and roaring bass stuff is a bit too disruptive for that to work very well either. Trance seems to work better with repitition but not so much distracting banging, something a bit softer but still dancable and hypnotic would be what I prefer for being hypnotized, not that feeling of being stuck in traffic that banging music typically radiates. |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by renttresnor
I suppose not! Unless they contradict a part that says "generally" or "usually" or something. Because there are always exceptions to a rule. But exceptions don't prove a rule! |
when the rule does not use the words "generally" and/or "usually" or eqivalents, exceptions do prove the rule false.
| quote: | Originally posted by renttresnor
Yeah, if you omit the second paragraph...:rolleyes: |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
if you're gonna start being selective about the parts of the definition that need apply to any particular track, dont forget i can do the same: |
| quote: | Originally posted by renttresnor
At its inception, trance wasn't very different from techno anyway. |
point being?
| quote: | Originally posted by renttresnor
Oh, they're out there if they're out there. Though electro is less about a concrete definition, and more about an abstract concept. That's just because of the ideas that were the backdrop to its invention and the resulting sounds that came from that. More than any other electronic music, it's more about an idea or ideas than anything else.
It's not my job to define anything anyway, and I don't know why you think it is... |
you're the one who claims there are definitions to all genres, hence the burden of proof is on you. |
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| djdk |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj christian
Exactly you got it right there, when the dj's end up making musik it just end up bad. :mad: |
are you being serious??
surely djs have the best perspective on what works well on a dancefloor?
im not saying all djs make good producers, but im really not sure your point makes any sense |
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| Estella |
| You fail. Log off (pun intended) |
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