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Fl users & ex-FLusers (pg. 5)
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by jahnlay
I didn't get personal with you, so stop doing it to me. Use whatever you want, and when you grow up you'll still be nowhere with your music because it sounds like isht. |
You're using the same ears to judge his music that you use to judge the supposed "quality" of the sequencers?
I think you should look up 'subjective' in the dictionary. :conf:
The code is objective; your opinions on it, are subjective.
PS Everyone: It's awesome that we care so much about this stuff as to post 4 pages and actually do the tests, because it shows, even if we disagree on that, that we agree on this: just how much love we have for the sound and the art!
:) |
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| Jason_R |
PS Everyone: It's awesome that we care so much about this stuff as to post 4 pages and actually do the tests, because it shows, even if we disagree on that, that we agree on this: just how much love we have for the sound and the art!
:) [/QUOTE]
Yeah I agree on that it's really nice to see. |
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| Centra Spike |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
Some people can be fooled into thinking FL has poor sound 'quality' but it does not. It does what every other DAW does. Only its meters are 6 dB off the mark and if you mix off them, then you are effectively mixing with a peak level of -6 dB. A difference of 6 dB is very noticeable and the human brain is very easily tricked like that. |
The meters are not wrong by 6dB... Test it yourself.
Did a quick check, fruity meters say about -2dB, Sound Forge says the same. |
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| Derivative |
No the meters will look the same but the fruity exported sound will be much quieter.
To get the same kind of level out of fruity as I do in soundforge I have to mix way over the red line. I still find it freaky when all my meters are red lining. I mean, I dont even know if I'm clipping my amp until I can hear it. Thats sooo not a good design decision. |
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| DJ Shibby |
"If peak meters flash red in traditional mixing hardware, it probably means the track is clipping. Fortunately FL Studio uses ’32-bit floating point’ numbers to internally represent volume, allowing almost any amplitude to be carried internally without clipping. The peak meters in the mixer then, are merely a guide to the relative volume in each track, and while it’s good practice to keep the track levels sensible, you don’t need to worry about red flashes in Mixer track peak meters (11)."
So I guess that's why it does it the way it does... apparently this guy coded an algorithm that prevents that awful clipping static-noise-burst.
A good thing for beginners, but it also means we need to be extra careful, since what we hear may be babying us! |
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| Majutsu |
i was going to post that from the manual too. what it has meant to me is that fl studio claims that hardware clips at red, esp 16bit. they claim with 32 floating bit, a much wider array of sounds that show up as red can be internally represented without distortion. BUT they say when you render to your sound to a 16 bit sound card, the red zone in the master track will still clip, since it doesn't have the extra headroom from the extra bit and floating point representation. SO what this means to me is that you can have lots of red in your mixer tracks if it sounds right, but in your master track you still need to be red free to avoid clipping. This is pretty cool.
this does not address the criticism of fl studio from the master track render sounding different or softer. that would not make sense from this part of the manual.
i don't really know which sounds better. i do see pros make stuff on protools, cubase, reason and fl studio. pretty much in that order of descending frequency. but you will notice that's also just a reverse timeline . . . it's just a matter of what people are comfortable with. i do think for some reason, different time periods, different synths, different sequencers, etc sound different. i think the composition process is probably more important. it makes everything from classical to classic trance tracks still work long after the sounds are dated. the new songs aren't great just by virtue of being new crisp sounds either.
a lot of the fl plugins are dated mda plugins. except sytrus which is very cool. the piano roll is very cool. most of the drum samples are dated and thin. the whole sounds very 1998 or so. however i think its a great tool. i think reason is pretty lame too. these protools rigs can be thousands of dollars and are not affordable to the music hobbyist in general. cubase is fair, but not the best interface. fl studio is a great all in one solution affordable and great for growing up to the early signed or near signed level. then you probably want to work with studio equipment and tools as much as possible. . . |
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| dj_kane |
| i tried fruty loops for about 2 months and couldnt work it out. it all seemed too easy for me then parts became too complicated. i found the sounds poor and not what i was looking for. i upgraded to cubase and reason after getting a bit of money and although cubase was tough at first im glad i made the change. |
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| LENG |
| so... just a lil summary, does that mean that the meters in fl don't tell the exact truth? frankly speaking, sometimes i feel it sounds better when some of my channels are going red in the mixers |
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| Derivative |
it would do because you are running the channel signals hotter by putting them in the red.
However an important part of mixing is visualisation. Red means 'bad'. If you work in cubase's mixer when you red line thats a no no. You can hear it clip as soon as it crosses the threshold and you know exactly when to keep the gain down to avoid clipping your amp. That is precise control. You know when you are running to hot. You know how much gain you can apply precisely before a clip occurs.
Fruity's meters are all over the place. I cant tell if I am clipping until I hear it, by which point I am already doing damage to my amp. Great. Also, I can never shake the feeling of WRONGNESS when I see my mixer light up and half of my channels are redlining. It sends very confusing messages. |
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| Four_On_Four-er |
So... if that's true about the FL meter, would it be best to mix it at a low volume (in this case FL's 0db), and then maximize the track volume in a program such as Soundforge (or master if you're very talented)?
And yes, I know that you should keep it as a .wav file until the final render (In this case, SOundforge's render). |
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| LENG |
| i find that it's a hassle to do final mastering on another tool... but anyway, is that how the pros do? |
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| Four_On_Four-er |
Am I missing someting here? Cuz it doesn't look that complicated:
1. Mix your track (sayyyy to -1 db)...
2. Export it to .wav...
3. Do your stuff in Soundforge. (In this case, I'm not a mastering engineer, so I'll normalize it without compression to keep dynamics). |
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