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Toronto noise whiners win again with new Sunday Bylaw (pg. 3)
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| FunkyGroove |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Does anyone force you into a smoking room? Or a nightclub for that matter? Id say that second hand smoking is an annoyance. If you are really concerned for your health, the bus driving down the street IS a health risk as are all the cars on a busy boulevard. I have no choice but to breathe that in do i? Meanwhile no one ever forced anyone to be in a place where people were smoking, did they? |
omg are you not even reading what I'm posting?
first of all I was talking about 2nd hand smoking BEFORE the law was enforced, when people working in public places like bars were heavily exposed to smoke, and yes you were forced to be there because you were employed there and didn't necessarily have another choice of a working environment
second of all, what were you supposed to do if all clubs and bars allowed smoking? not go out? yeah whatever! we had to put up with that, and thank god it's no longer the case! screw the smelly clothes/hair! it got to the points where I felt like I'm developing asthma! and just cos other people feel like wrecking their health, doesn't mean I should have been deprived of having fun in those places
it is NOT an annoyance, it's a question of public health, and a very obvious one |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyGroove
first of all I was talking about 2nd hand smoking BEFORE the law was enforced, when people working in public places like bars were heavily exposed to smoke, and yes you were forced to be there because you were employed there and didn't necessarily have another choice of a working environment |
Funny but as a non smoker, no one ever forced me to work at a bar or club. That was my choice. I knew there was smoking there. But i was fine with it. Ask all the non smoking servers today if they wish they had smoking allowed. Im sure they will tell you as they have me that theyd rather put up with the smoke and earn good tips than have the smoke free cash free life that has been imposed on them.
| quote: | | second of all, what were you supposed to do if all clubs and bars allowed smoking? not go out? yeah whatever! |
What about if now the arguement is "why should i have to put up with drunk people everytime i go out? We should ban alcohol!" Smoking was part of going out just like booze music and dancing. And yes it was your choice whether you wanted to be a part of that or not. Life is about trade offs. If people cant learn that lesson they are in for a very tough and miserable life.
| quote: | we had to put up with that, and thank god it's no longer the case! screw the smelly clothes/hair! it got to the points where I felt like I'm developing asthma! and just cos other people feel like wrecking their health, doesn't mean I should have been deprived of having fun in those places
it is NOT an annoyance, it's a question of public health, and a very obvious one |
booze binging and loud music are also a question of public health and could be banned using the exact same arguements. But i guess you dont have a problem with that since you LIKE those things...
right? |
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| FunkyGroove |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Funny but as a non smoker, no one ever forced me to work at a bar or club. That was my choice. I knew there was smoking there. But i was fine with it. Ask all the non smoking servers today if they wish they had smoking allowed. Im sure they will tell you as they have me that theyd rather put up with the smoke and earn good tips than have the smoke free cash free life that has been imposed on them. |
yeah tell that to people with 3 jobs and all, if they do really have a choice
just asked my room mate who works in a restaurant, and her answer was a solid NO.
| quote: | | What about if now the arguement is "why should i have to put up with drunk people everytime i go out? We should ban alcohol!" Smoking was part of going out just like booze music and dancing. And yes it was your choice whether you wanted to be a part of that or not. Life is about trade offs. If people cant learn that lesson they are in for a very tough and miserable life. |
booze/drunk people is different, well IMO anyway... while one consumes alhocol, it doesn't harm the ones around him, unless he/she goes overboard, right?
| quote: | booze binging and loud music are also a question of public health and could be banned using the exact same arguements. But i guess you dont have a problem with that since you LIKE those things...
right? |
loud music is a very debatable topic, and again I wouldn't equate that to smoking.. loud music in clubs is everyone's personal choice, loud music at home is a touchy subject, personally I don't mind the quite hours thing of 11pm |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyGroove
yeah tell that to people with 3 jobs and all, if they do really have a choice
just asked my room mate who works in a restaurant, and her answer was a solid NO. |
dont tell me that she doesnt have a choice. Thats like saying "i hate water but i have no choice but to be a lifeguard." I dont buy it.
| quote: |
booze/drunk people is different, well IMO anyway... while one consumes alhocol, it doesn't harm the ones around him, unless he/she goes overboard, right? |
Tell that to MADD canada whos goal is to bring back prohibition and see what their answer is.
| quote: | | loud music is a very debatable topic, and again I wouldn't equate that to smoking.. loud music in clubs is everyone's personal choice, loud music at home is a touchy subject, personally I don't mind the quite hours thing of 11pm |
Just as debatable as smoking. And how is loud music in clubs a personal choice but smoking is not? I see, so people have the right whether or not to enter a club when it comes to loud music, but not smoking?
Do i smell hypocrisy? |
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| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
And how is loud music in clubs a personal choice but smoking is not? I see, so people have the right whether or not to enter a club when it comes to loud music, but not smoking?
Do i smell hypocrisy? |
There's a very good point! ;) |
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| FunkyGroove |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
dont tell me that she doesnt have a choice. Thats like saying "i hate water but i have no choice but to be a lifeguard." I dont buy it. |
sure, being unemployed then?
| quote: | Just as debatable as smoking. And how is loud music in clubs a personal choice but smoking is not? I see, so people have the right whether or not to enter a club when it comes to loud music, but not smoking?
Do i smell hypocrisy? |
yes, people enter clubs willingly, loud music or not
people smoking in clubs/bars willingly too, however that had the effects on those around them, which is not fair on non-smokers
basically, what I'm trying to say is that a person smoking in a club is not the same as the person willingly going in into a club with loud music |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyGroove
sure, being unemployed then? |
There are LOTS of other jobs out there that dont involve smoke. Face it, your friend used to put up with it because of the tips. And that was the trade off.
| quote: | yes, people enter clubs willingly, loud music or not
people smoking in clubs/bars willingly too, however that had the effects on those around them, which is not fair on non-smokers |
it was fair to the non smokers, because they entered willingly. What wasnt fair was when non smokers had to breathe smoke at the grocery store or anywhere else that was common everyday life. When i was a kid it was like that. Nightclubs dont fit into that category.
What about people who go to clubs that want peace and quiet? Why arent they whining? (yet) |
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| FunkyGroove |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Nightclubs dont fit into that category. |
i disagree
dancing in a smoked up club for hours was hardly a positive work out
I still remember the days of emerging outside and literally gasping for fresh air |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyGroove
basically, what I'm trying to say is that a person smoking in a club is not the same as the person willingly going in into a club with loud music |
why not? |
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| FunkyGroove |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
What about people who go to clubs that want peace and quiet? |
how does that work? :conf:
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
why not? |
well how I see it:
person goes into a club, hypothetical result: loss of hearing, purely his own loss, noone else affected
person goes into a club and smokes, hypothetical result: eventual risk of lung cancer, as well as effects on people around him
smoking is a personal choice, yes, true, but not everyone in a club would smoke right? so why should the rest be negatively affected by someone elses personal choice? |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyGroove
i disagree
dancing in a smoked up club for hours was hardly a positive work out
I still remember the days of emerging outside and literally gasping for fresh air |
Nightclubs are essential for daily living?? :eek: :toothless :toothless :toothless :crazy: |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyGroove
how does that work? :conf: |
Exactly the same way that people demanded smoke free clubs.
"why do people need smoke (music) to have a good time? They can have a good time without smoking (music). Why cant they just drink(talk to others) instead of forcing everyone to deal with their smoking(music)" |
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