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Formula 1 - season 2007 (pg. 9)
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| pmoisse |
^^ true enough, good points.
But, when I said loosen the rules, I'm not advocating going balls-out with mad power. You could take power away but give grip back, and improve overtaking, but then you'd just have A1GP or F3000.
The teams are restricted to what they CAN use now though, yet you still see astronomical budgets since the only really free area now is in aero. Aero takes time and time costs money(and a super computer if you want to spend less time doing your CFD simulations). There isn't much you can do to improve your suspension, and that's not a high-cost area anyways. The engines have been homologated to last years spec. They're working with the seamless-shift boxes now which will cost teams in development and finishes when these new boxes puke their bits all over the track.
Also, the amount of money they spend on hospitality is retarded.
Hopefully they do something to improve the racing, since what we've got now is just another season of follow the leader.
As I've mentionned before, I'm excited to be living in Europe now so that I can check out DTM, WTCC and WRC without having to pay $350 for a weekend of racing. |
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| Omega_M |
| Formula 1 is not just any racing sport. It is an advanced technology competition between the world's biggest and finest (not necessarily both) car manufacturers. The driver plays an important part, but not as much as in other racing sports. It is a combination of glamor, technology and driving skills that makes formula one so successful. Placing restrictions on technology or curbing the spendings on glamor will take away sponsorship and kill the sport. |
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| fcuk ® |
^^ Very true.
F1 is more than a sport these days, it involves alot more than just racing itself. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport racing which means they must have the best in everything (drivers,hospitality,locations,sponsors,etc) otherwise like stated, it would just be another A1GP/F3 series. All these things do make F1 a lot more interesting than the other motorsport series but with not having what it already has today, it just wouldn't be F1. |
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| noikeee |
There needs to be some sort of compromise. Obviously it needs to stand out in terms of technology from all other series, it needs to be most advanced in the world, but put all technology in it and the racing will be terrible. It already is pretty poor - overtaking seems almost impossible this year, although part of it is due to the limit on engine revs and the single tyre supplier.
Another example - they're thinking of freeing up some driver aids like "stability control" in a couple years from now. From what I've read this is basically something that brakes the car whenever there's the danger of going off-road. Meaning, drivers will then be able to risk everything without the chance of spinning into the grass or putting it into the wall. Where's the challenge? What good does this bring to racing? It only pleases the car manufacturers who want to sell these driver aids in road cars. |
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| Trance Nutter |
| Some of the technology that FIA et al want to introduce are things like biofuels, energy storage and re-use, stuff like that. That would be cool to see and would keep F1 at the pinacle of techonology. Stuff like stability control is just gay though. Stability control is already available in road cars, F1 should (and has been) developing pre-production technology if it is to stay as the pinnacle. |
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| pmoisse |
Peugeot and Audi are about to go head to head in diesels at LeMans. There are two manufacturers who are trying to promote fuel economy and alternative fuels via a top form of motorsport. Also, look at Corvette and the affect the C6r programme has had on the z06 'Vette. It's knocking on super-car territory at a fraction of the price. F1 needs to figure out how to allow technical innovation like fuels, engine configurations, and gearbox technologies (CVT's which Williams has had since the 90's but they can't use)while still keeping a high standard of racing.
I agree with the stability control stuff too. They already have traction control and you can hear it cut in from the apex to the exit of the corners (depending on how much a certain driver has dialed into his car). This doesn't help passing at all, why should an electronic safety net? Racing is about having the stones to go deeper on the brakes than the other guy, or around the outside when he's not expecting it.
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
Now this video is great racing. No, we can't be stuck in the past and the cars ARE faster today. But as they've become faster, the racing has become more boring.
Having ranted and ranted, I still watch every race and will continue to watch every race. |
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| noikeee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
Some of the technology that FIA et al want to introduce are things like biofuels, energy storage and re-use, stuff like that. That would be cool to see and would keep F1 at the pinacle of techonology. |
Yeah, that would be nice, instead F1 keeps "environmental friendly" by painting the planet earth on a car. :rolleyes:
The fuel burning 3rd session in qualifying is still a big joke too. |
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| nchs09 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pmoisse
Peugeot and Audi are about to go head to head in diesels at LeMans. There are two manufacturers who are trying to promote fuel economy and alternative fuels via a top form of motorsport. Also, look at Corvette and the affect the C6r programme has had on the z06 'Vette. It's knocking on super-car territory at a fraction of the price. F1 needs to figure out how to allow technical innovation like fuels, engine configurations, and gearbox technologies (CVT's which Williams has had since the 90's but they can't use)while still keeping a high standard of racing.
I agree with the stability control stuff too. They already have traction control and you can hear it cut in from the apex to the exit of the corners (depending on how much a certain driver has dialed into his car). This doesn't help passing at all, why should an electronic safety net? Racing is about having the stones to go deeper on the brakes than the other guy, or around the outside when he's not expecting it.
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
Now this video is great racing. No, we can't be stuck in the past and the cars ARE faster today. But as they've become faster, the racing has become more boring.
Having ranted and ranted, I still watch every race and will continue to watch every race. |
yes, the stones, but at the speed they are going, someone could get hurt... i think its more of a accident prevention tool. i for one, think its fantastic, shure it takes away some of the spicyness of the racing... but it keeps everyone safe.. cant complaint about htat... well i guess you could :p |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by nchs09
yes, the stones, but at the speed they are going, someone could get hurt... i think its more of a accident prevention tool. i for one, think its fantastic, shure it takes away some of the spicyness of the racing... but it keeps everyone safe.. cant complaint about htat... well i guess you could :p |
Traction control systems were allowed again, because somebody complained that Ferrari was using them. The FIA tried to ban them, but came to the realisation that they could not actually control or investigate such electronic systems. Basically the FIA gave up and said 'since we cannot control this, everybody is free to use them'. They even had a period where it would be banned, but the termination deadline was pushed further and further back until the FIA said they were just going to allow TC.
As pmoisse said, you can hear TC cut in and out during the race, and that is what prompted some teams to ask the FIA it investigate. I believe all this was during the late 90's. They eventually allowed the systems after the turn of the century. |
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| pmoisse |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
Traction control systems were allowed again, because somebody complained that Ferrari was using them. The FIA tried to ban them, but came to the realisation that they could not actually control or investigate such electronic systems. Basically the FIA gave up and said 'since we cannot control this, everybody is free to use them'. They even had a period where it would be banned, but the termination deadline was pushed further and further back until the FIA said they were just going to allow TC.
As pmoisse said, you can hear TC cut in and out during the race, and that is what prompted some teams to ask the FIA it investigate. I believe all this was during the late 90's. They eventually allowed the systems after the turn of the century. |
Exactly. This is the innovation that makes F1 great. Sure it's pushing/cheating the rules. Just like the Tyrrell 6-wheeler, just like the Brabham fan car, and most recently, just like the flexible wing elements. With these 3 examples, there was something quite visible which the FIA could police. The FIA cannot police the electronics until the next couple years when they issue spec ECU's courtesy of Microsoft. There's a 4th example which may/may not have been banned (haven't read the rules on the FIA website for updates) and that's the Renault non-electronic launch control. I think it was banned, but not sure. It was super creative and arguably helped them win Alonso's first championship. Again, innovation on the edge of the rules.
| quote: | | Originally posted by nchs09 yes, the stones, but at the speed they are going, someone could get hurt... i think its more of a accident prevention tool. i for one, think its fantastic, shure it takes away some of the spicyness of the racing... but it keeps everyone safe.. cant complaint about htat... well i guess you could |
Yes, but the tracks are also safer. Note the cameramen and pit workers in the Dijon video I posted. Note how little (if any) runoff area there is. There also wasn't a pitlane speed limit until the early 90's! This was filmed in the same year that they stopped running the Nordschleiffe because of Lauda's accident (I'm going to be running the Nordschleiffe this spring, and I will be sure to report - with video - how ing nuts it is :D). The cars are also much safer thanks to Ron Dennis and John Barnard developping the carbon monocoque MP4-4. The FIA has also taken grip away from the cars with harder, non-slick tires. Sure the cars are faster over a given lap, but that's through developments in aero which, if disturbed mid-corner, removes loads of grip as well. |
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| Omega_M |
| I think it is safe to say that the stuff we see in consumer cars today is a direct result of formula one technology. |
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| pmoisse |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
I think it is safe to say that the stuff we see in consumer cars today is a direct result of formula one technology. |
True, to a point.
Racing, as a whole, really. All-wheel-drive as we now know it is courtesy Audi & the rally world (even though Audi had it on their road cars at the same time).
F1 got a lot of it's aero cues in the 70's from endurance cars from a few years earlier. Ground effects were first used in Can-Am, and wide use of flowing bodyshapes creating downforce were from LeMans cars like the Porsche 917 series.
But yes, ABS, active suspension, and traction control were all given their trial by fire in F1. |
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