Originally posted by Krypton
That is because you are taking it completely out of context. These people are offering what they believe to be the path to well-being from that of someone addicted to pornography who wants to stop.
If somebody wants to stop, he can find something other than pornography to occupy his time. I wouldn't recommend sitting in a church or credulously burying one's face in a Bible as necessarily a much better use of one's time, but if that sort of thing attracts you, then go ahead, I suppose.
quote:
If it were just a dude in the sky, I don't think there would be a Christianity. You're analogy fails. If it were that simply, why would over 1 billion people claim to be a Christian believer?
The same reason over one billion people are Muslims and religious Buddhists and Hindus and all sorts of other religions: believing that life is something more than a bunch of particles bouncing about can make things more interesting, at least for some people, and sometimes comforting.
Doesn't mean that it's true.
Also, the belief that the universe, which looks very orderly in many ways, was fashioned by some kind of big intentional being is intuitively more plausible than the idea that it just popped out of nothing, so to speak.
But intuitive plausibility doesn't make an idea true, either.
quote:
All I'm saying is, before you put something that billions of people believe in, into the trash can, know the context of the belief. Because otherwise, you look like a tool trying to bash it.
The original context for the beliefs under discussion is the culture of ancient tribes who thought that masturbation was to be avoided because it was a "waste of seed" and thus counteractive to reproduction, which was necessary to survival. Women were thought of as something like ovens for "baking" babies. The man puts the bread in and the woman just bakes it.
The history of reproductive knowledge is a rather amusing and sometimes saddening tale of bumbling ignorance.
Halcyon+On+On
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Perhaps. I don't hold to any one religion, but I certainly believe in a higher divine power, outside of the boundaries of space and time and our own physical laws. We simply cannot ever know what is outside of our universe, because our physical laws cannot explain that which is outside of our universe.
That may not tell me whether there is a god or not, but the supernaturality of it all leads me to include the notion of a universe created by a divine intelligence in my lists of answers to the question, "What is the essence of existence?"
I also believe that there is a higher power. Atheism is quite arrogant, I think. This higher power does not care what sins we have committed against our social backdrop though. This higher being does not give a if we touch ourselves or are not popular or if we work out 7 days a week so that people like us. This god does not see the importance in praying and subservience and written rules to help us live our lives as better servants to Him or Her (though this being most certainly transcends gender and sex). It may not be logical for me to 'believe' in something that I have never actually "seen" but I, unlike most of the religious herd, am not particularly proud of such beliefs - nor am I ashamed. I recognize its existence just as I would recognize the sky - it's just there, not caring, not judging, but just there to watch and to do things that we could not possibly understand.
I recognize that people's religions are important to them and that this hope is something they bring to the grave and that it helps them to cope with this place and their mortality - perhaps that is even why I might believe in such things as well. But the ferventness by which they believe and the passion by which they judge others as though they, themselves, are Gods - that is incorrigibly ed up. And it makes me glad that they would willingly die for such beliefs and for such overinflated assurance and pride. And it makes me laugh at their hypocrisy and their passionate disregard for their utter mortality. And it also makes me afraid because I know that they would do anything they so incorrectly believe is right in order to please their god - as though a being with sensibilities higher than our own truly cares about their passionate disregard for their own individuality and integrity.
Halcyon+On+On
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
The man puts the bread in and the woman just bakes it.
Wouldn't that make toast? :wtf:
SuspicionVandit
god's got more important things in the world to do than monitor us. like signing his resignation to me, that in douche
MrJiveBoJingles
Yeah, I guess "dough" would be the right term.
MrJiveBoJingles
In Numbers 5, we have helpful advice on how to know whether a woman has cheated on her husband: take some magical (holy) water, put some dust in it, and make her swear a certain oath. If she's an adulterer, her thigh will start to rot and her belly will swell. If she's not, neither of those things will happen.
The bizarre rituals and their supposed magical effects are kind of amusing to read about.
The odd thing is that many people seem never to consider the idea that perhaps these rituals, so similar to those of both earlier and later cultures who also thought that their gods were inordinately fond of the "sweet savor" of burning animals, may have been just made up by people who were honestly trying to figure out the world but couldn't quite figure out how to do it very consistently.
Then again, the more extreme among the religious will assert that everybody else's gods are in fact "demons" imitating the "one true god" and trying to draw people away from salvation.
Ed G
George understands religion:
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
If somebody wants to stop, he can find something other than pornography to occupy his time. I wouldn't recommend sitting in a church or credulously burying one's face in a Bible as necessarily a much better use of one's time, but if that sort of thing attracts you, then go ahead, I suppose.
The same reason over one billion people are Muslims and religious Buddhists and Hindus and all sorts of other religions: believing that life is something more than a bunch of particles bouncing about can make things more interesting, at least for some people, and sometimes comforting.
Doesn't mean that it's true.
Also, the belief that the universe, which looks very orderly in many ways, was fashioned by some kind of big intentional being is intuitively more plausible than the idea that it just popped out of nothing, so to speak.
But intuitive plausibility doesn't make an idea true, either.
The original context for the beliefs under discussion is the culture of ancient tribes who thought that masturbation was to be avoided because it was a "waste of seed" and thus counteractive to reproduction, which was necessary to survival. Women were thought of as something like ovens for "baking" babies. The man puts the bread in and the woman just bakes it.
The history of reproductive knowledge is a rather amusing and sometimes saddening tale of bumbling ignorance.
Offering a way out of a particular addiction is not shoving anything down someone's throat.
I don't speculate in a higher power because it makes me feel good. I'm seeking a rational explanation for why the universe is the way it is by searching for outside sources. By outside, outside the universe, which is something we cannot explain using science. We can only speculate.
By saying, "We havn't seen it, so it must not be true.", you assume you know all there is to know, and you have seen all there is to see. I'm not saying, "I have seen God, therefore he must be true." Rather, "Could divine intelligence explain any fundamental questions about existance?" Personally, after examining this question, I hold the view that there is a divine existance, outside of space and time, which scientifically, represents the supernatural which science cannot explain.
The original context that you presented in your statement was..
quote:
But a belief in some dude in the sky who bothers himself about where on your body you happen to put your hands is rather silly.
Yes, it does sound silly, only if it were really like that. Again, if that is what it really was, then there wouldn't be a religion. The belief is taken out of context to mean the deity sits up above the clouds watching us masturbate.
MrJiveBoJingles
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Offering a way out of a particular addiction is not shoving anything down someone's throat.
Did I say that anybody was shoving anything down anyone's throat? I think you have me confused with somebody else in this thread.
quote:
I don't speculate in a higher power because it makes me feel good. I'm seeking a rational explanation for why the universe is the way it is by searching for outside sources.
Okay. I mentioned a search for origins as a possible motivation. Did you read that part of my post?
quote:
By saying, "We havn't seen it, so it must not be true.", you assume you know all there is to know, and you have seen all there is to see.
That's true. So it's a good thing that I didn't say what you are attributing to me. :rolleyes:
quote:
Personally, after examining this question, I hold the view that there is a divine existance, outside of space and time, which scientifically, represents the supernatural which science cannot explain.
But "science cannot explain it" is not a "scientific" position at all. It may be a defensible or respectible position, but to hold it is not to behave "scientifically."
"Science cannot explain this, ever" is not the humble admission that many people take it for. It is an arrogant proclamation and can plausibly be interpreted as meaning something like, "Shut up and stop arguing, now. I have my beliefs and nothing you say will ever prove me wrong. In fact, your babble about 'scientific evidence' is really entirely irrelevant to my belief."
That may not be what you mean by it, but it seems to get used that way frequently enough.
quote:
The belief is taken out of context to mean the deity sits up above the clouds watching us masturbate.
What else is the logical conclusion of the belief that God cares whether you masturbate? Surely not that he is not watching people but nevertheless catches them.
MrJiveBoJingles
And why is that the buck always stops with the "spiritual realm" but the origins of this supposed realm are always left unexplained? "Spirits" and "gods" are simply defined to be eternal, no explanation needed.
Krypton
M Theory dude. It's on its way.
MrJiveBoJingles
And I would be willing to bet that the physicists proposing it are eager to find ways to confirm their theory with repeatable, empirical experiments -- this in contrast to spirit-believers.
