The sad part is, I would love for Iraq to be peaceful, democratic, an anchor of reason in such a troubled region. We want that to happen, but we have to realize that despite being the most powerful country in the world, it is just not possible at this point, especially with all the time and money we have already wasted because Bush & Co had absolutely no plan for after the invasion. We've royally ed the country up, chances of such a disheveled people returning to lawlessness and order after so much chaos are slim to none...they're just not ready for democracy and rule of law. You can't have rule of law without a solid police force, without a solid judicial system, without solid government. Even if all 3 of those pillars were firmly in place in Iraq today, the mindset of the population (what remains of it anyway, since the middle class has all but packed up and left) is to take the law into their own hands, kill or be killed, and do whatever it takes to survive.
What I would really like out of Bush & Cheney is admission of complete and utter failure...
Our failure in Iraq is going to haunt this country for decades to come...maybe even longer...
hardcore trancer
so tell me Latin,you post all these articles everyday to prove that things are going well there.If thats the case then why arent we seeing any sign of troop withdrawl?I mean based on what you are reporting everyday to us the mission is done over there so why waste anymore money and stay there?
Clovis
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
so tell me Latin,you post all these articles everyday to prove that things are going well there.If thats the case then why arent we seeing any sign of troop withdrawl?I mean based on what you are reporting everyday to us the mission is done over there so why waste anymore money and stay there?
Troop withdrawal at this point would only make it worse. U.S. forces are the only thing holding the country together right now.
Dervish
History repeats (quite old but... strangely relevant... this is pre-war well 2nd one... really worth a watch)
MisterOpus1
quote:
Originally posted by LatinLover
But I guess that the anti american movement led my Opus is really strong in promoting negative propaganda.
we can win tomorrow and you would have this anti american movement still be in denial. that is why i dont take things seriously around here, people really have to mature and accept the facts
This really doesn't deserve much of a response, but it is becoming more and more obvious that you serve no purpose here other than to bait people into flame wars by your deliberate smears and ad hominem bull. It goes beyond description how sad it is to see someone such as yourself wrap themselves up in your little GW Bush security blanket so tightly while sitting in your corner, yelling and spitting "PROPAGANDIST!!!" and "ANTI-AMERICAN!!!" to all who pass you by. Strangely, I find myself pitying you more than ever.
Unfortunately your baiting tends to work as you're able to grab that attention you so desperately desire from those who just don't know any better (myself included). But as I've said repeatedly in so many threads in the past - what you do adds nothing worthwhile to the discussion, ever. In fact, it's quite difficult to find a post of yours that truly adds something that I would venture to say ANYONE believes is worthwile to the conversation.
It's not that I merely disagree with you, Latin, and it's certainly not that I disagree with your utter failure and ignorance to actually engage in any debate. That goes without saying, of course. It's actually more along the lines of a realization that you seemingly just want some gosh darn attention. Hey, I'm human too, Latin. Who doesn't want attention, right? The problem, however, is the choice of attention received, to which you could care not a wit. Kind of like the middle sibling - eventually they start acting up because they don't receive enough attention of any sort, and they no longer become choosy as to what kind of attention they get. Positive or negative, they just don't care anymore.
It's hard not to see you in this light, sir. Because for someone such as yourself who's managed to get banned 3 different times in the past from this website, once from the PDD, I think it's obvious that your reputation unfortunately precedes you. It's hard not to examine why that happened to you; why people were frustrated, annoyed, and downright sick of you enough to warrant a banning. Again, maybe it's the liberal side in me, but I can't help but pity you.
So while we examine your posts and try to understand exactly where you're coming from, it's so difficult not to examine why you say what you say on a continual basis. I'm pretty sure you're cognizant enough to know what you're saying, and even plenty aware of why you're saying it. Calling out to anyone that debunks your points as "propagandists" and "antiAmericans" really is too childish to discuss on it's own merits (simply because there is no merit), and it leaves me to the only conclusion that I can come up with: you just need some attention.
So in all seriousness, sir, do you need a virtual hug? Straight men can hug, you know, so I hope you're confident enough in your masculinity to be able to hug another man. Please let us know. Us liberals just can't help our bleeding hearts...........
Clovis
That was ing hilarious dude... :stongue:
Fir3start3r
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
so tell me Latin,you post all these articles everyday to prove that things are going well there.If thats the case then why arent we seeing any sign of troop withdrawl?I mean based on what you are reporting everyday to us the mission is done over there so why waste anymore money and stay there?
Nice loaded question there HT...
hardcore trancer
quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Nice loaded question there HT...
and whats your answer?let me guess you wanna fight them there so that you dont have to fight them over here?:haha:
LatinLover
quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
This really doesn't deserve much of a response, but it is becoming more and more obvious that you serve no purpose here other than to bait people into flame wars by your deliberate smears and ad hominem bull. It goes beyond description how sad it is to see someone such as yourself wrap themselves up in your little GW Bush security blanket so tightly while sitting in your corner, yelling and spitting "PROPAGANDIST!!!" and "ANTI-AMERICAN!!!" to all who pass you by. Strangely, I find myself pitying you more than ever.
Unfortunately your baiting tends to work as you're able to grab that attention you so desperately desire from those who just don't know any better (myself included). But as I've said repeatedly in so many threads in the past - what you do adds nothing worthwhile to the discussion, ever. In fact, it's quite difficult to find a post of yours that truly adds something that I would venture to say ANYONE believes is worthwile to the conversation.
It's not that I merely disagree with you, Latin, and it's certainly not that I disagree with your utter failure and ignorance to actually engage in any debate. That goes without saying, of course. It's actually more along the lines of a realization that you seemingly just want some gosh darn attention. Hey, I'm human too, Latin. Who doesn't want attention, right? The problem, however, is the choice of attention received, to which you could care not a wit. Kind of like the middle sibling - eventually they start acting up because they don't receive enough attention of any sort, and they no longer become choosy as to what kind of attention they get. Positive or negative, they just don't care anymore.
It's hard not to see you in this light, sir. Because for someone such as yourself who's managed to get banned 3 different times in the past from this website, once from the PDD, I think it's obvious that your reputation unfortunately precedes you. It's hard not to examine why that happened to you; why people were frustrated, annoyed, and downright sick of you enough to warrant a banning. Again, maybe it's the liberal side in me, but I can't help but pity you.
So while we examine your posts and try to understand exactly where you're coming from, it's so difficult not to examine why you say what you say on a continual basis. I'm pretty sure you're cognizant enough to know what you're saying, and even plenty aware of why you're saying it. Calling out to anyone that debunks your points as "propagandists" and "antiAmericans" really is too childish to discuss on it's own merits (simply because there is no merit), and it leaves me to the only conclusion that I can come up with: you just need some attention.
So in all seriousness, sir, do you need a virtual hug? Straight men can hug, you know, so I hope you're confident enough in your masculinity to be able to hug another man. Please let us know. Us liberals just can't help our bleeding hearts...........
Opus here is a tissue. The only onw crying in this board is you. Im sick and tired of you hijacking my threads to tell us about your frustrations. I mean Opus why dont you go and create a " Cry Out Thread" and take all the things you like to bitch about there. But please donot go to other peoples thread and hijack them :)
LatinLover
BAGHDAD - Citing a 60 percent decline in violence in Iraq over the last six months, Gen. David Petraeus said Thursday that maintaining security is easier than establishing it and gives him more flexibility in deploying forces.
Armed with charts showing that as of Wednesday, weekly attacks and Iraqi civilian deaths have plunged to levels not seen here since early 2006, Petraeus said the reduction lets him make force adjustments to address remaining problem areas, which would include northern Iraq.
Speaking to reporters at the U.S. military's Camp Victory, he said the improved security is due to a number of factors including a "a reduction in some of the signature attacks that are associated with weapons provided by Iran," as well as a cease-fire called by radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr that he said had a particularly noticeable impact what had been one of the most violent areas of Baghdad.
And he said there has been a "reduction in some of the signature attacks" associated with insurgents using Iranian weapons, including deadly armor-piercing rounds.
But, he added, that it is "hard to tell if that's because there has already been a cessation of provision of those items, or if there has been direction to stop."
At the same time, he said the military has detained individuals as recently as October who were trained by Iranians, evidence that the instruction has continued.
Petreaus, who is scheduled to give Congress and the American people an update next March on progress in Iraq, and map out some plans for U.S. force levels down the road, refused to offer too much optimism.
"Nobody says anything about turning a corner, seeing lights at the end of tunnels, any of those other phrases," said Petraeus. "You just keep your head down and keep moving."
He said that around Thanksgiving commanders looked back at violence levels a year ago, and six months ago, and found a declining line in which violence had declined from a time when hundreds of Iraqis were killed and injured and US troops took heavy losses in a number of horrific attacks, to a time of still somewhat steady but less deadly attacks, to a day last month when there were just 45-50 attacks.
Petraeus met for about an hour Thursday with Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who was in Iraq for his sixth visit in the past year.
The general has overseen the military's build up in Iraq this year, as force levels jumped to 20 combat brigades, with more than 180,000 troops, during certain times when some of the units overlapped as they moved in and out of the country.
"There's nobody in uniform who is doing victory dances in the end zone," said Petraeus, saying it will require more tough work against a very dangerous adversary.
