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Would the world be better off with out religion?
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| shaolin_Z |
Living in the US, religion is usually all around me in some form or another. I'm fairly familiar with how most American's (or different 'demographic' subgroups rather, for lack of a better term) veiw religion. But I'm curious what people think on a larger scale. That doesn't mean American's aren't welcome to participate in this thread, by all means, go ahead. Being limited to single poll question, here's some additional questions you can answer to flesh out your response and make your participation more meanigful. Do you think:
- religion is an outdated archaic system unfit for modern man's / woman's 'spiritual' needs? Is an ethical system derivative of religious teachings (or morality) completely bankrupt? Or are there only certain principles or aspects of it that are problematic?
- religion necessarily detract from an individuals intellectual faculties? Would an individual necessarily be more intellectualy developed in the absense of religion?
- religious doctrines are inherintly violent or barbaric in their teachings?
- many or most of the problems today exist because of religion, or religion at least complicates matters? How much do you think religion contributes to make matters worse? Would the world would be [as close as possible to] ideal if everyone was an atheist?
- religion is devoid of any positive aspects or and is entirely negative? Has religion made any positive contributions to humaninty?
- there is any distinction between the teachings or philosophy of religious texts and the actions of it's self-proclaimed followers?
- religion is by it's very nature a system of control? Or is it simply more susceptible to abuse? Is religion is the only doctrinal system of control known to humankind? Would you consider any secular doctrines [weather economic, philosophical, or political] to be abusable as means of control?
- these question are too broad to be meanigful in the absense of being specific to a a particular religion?
- the occult [and escoteric arts or practices] are fundamentally similar to religion or identical in nature?
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| George Smiley |
I voted unsure. It's easy to look at all the negative aspects of religion and ignore the positives, likewise, it is easy for the other side to concentrate solely on the positives and ignore the negatives (and on the same note, concetrate only on the positives of their religion and only on the negatives of other religions)
At the end of the day, I can't think of a single civilisation that wasn't based on a religion. Religion is where our laws come from, but at the same time, those laws also have a basis in common sense, so it might be a chicken and egg argument.
Religion has also given mankind a strong sense of morality that I don't think we'd have otherwise. There is a definate trend that the more a society moves away from religion the less morality that society has, and all the problems like crime that come with it (certainly true in the UK). That doesn't have to mean that the society was whacko fundamentalist like many in America are, it's just a guide to live your life without being a total bastard.
I also think that economically speaking, I would much prefer the "ideology" of religion as an economic model than the one we have today. Islam and Christianity both propose socialist societies - as religious as America is, can anyone honestly say that the capitalist ideology of the "Christian" Right is compatible with Christianity? Never in a million years.
And that brings us to the root problem of religion - if it was followed by the book (sorry for the pun!) then we wouldn't have any problems. However, too many people twist religion to suit their political/individual needs. "Fundamenatalists" should describe those who live their lives exactly as written (ie nice people), however, what we call fundamentalists today are those with warped intepretations of their religion which they use to justofy extreme beleifs/actions - they aren't real followers at all. All religions have as a fundamental beleif - love thy neighbour - but no fundamentalists follow this very basic belief and it leads us to all the problems in the world blamed on religion.
I like how Christianity is in the UK, very lax and very liberal. They tend not to interfer in politics and the views of the clergy are relitively left wing (as opposed to the US). Obviously we have our fair share of crazies, but these are kept to a minimum (altho we do have a problem with Islamist extremeists). This is how it should be - they keep themselves to themselves and keep their nose out of the clas room!
I'd like to see a world that "matures" out of religion. We take all the good spiritual stuff like how to be good people, and abandon the dogma and faith as a way to explain things and take off the restraints that religion has on the progress of society... |
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| {b.s.e.} |
Well, outside of establishing a murderous patriarchal society, what else has it done for us? Get rid of it.
People tote the values that religion has brought us, but these values are inherent to humanity and when they are accredited to religion they lose value. Displacing Universal responsibility is a serious crime, in my view.
Relgion is not archaic - it has progressed for many centuries, evolved and changed. The religion whether the bible or muslim practices are not as "ancient" as many think. Although it included elements of a specific cultures past, most religions have developed and changed over time and still are.
Are you nuts? Watch Jesus Camp and tell me that those people are bringing light to the world. There has been no revolution in religion, outside of conceding that the Earth revolves around the Sun. We don't burn witches any more, that's a plus; we don't knock on wood because we think there are spirits in trees, way to go! Religion hasn't changed much because it is still run by man, who in turn is still interpreting ancient, unverifiable texts. Sharia Law? How advanced! How humane! Or how about the Jehovah's? They would deny their own child a blood transfusion because their interpretation of the Bible states that it is against God's Will. Or the Mormons? It's all horribly misinformed and slows the progress of humanity.
Overall I think many people view religion as the worlds 8 major world religions and don't see beyond that.
Because they are the major influences in our day-to-day life. It's like talking about the people that live in another Galaxy, or Solar System; They aren't here [enough] to make any direct influence on lifestyle. All religions stem from the major religions. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Well, outside of establishing a murderous patriarchal society, what else has it done for us? Get rid of it.
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dumb comment!
the biggest contribution is probably education. the catholic church educates more people than any other organization, millions of people in the US alone (and not in religious education, but in science, math, etc...). see link below:
LIST OF CATHOLIC UNIVERSITIES
Churches feed homeless people, provide support to the general population in times of emergency (9/11, katrina, etc...), and many also help in third world countries.
CATHOLIC CHARITIES |
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| Zild |
| Higher education is a business not a charity. |
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| Ishad |
| Relegion is a business too, not a charity. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Higher education is a business not a charity. |
not to mention that there is no better way to subtely indoctrinate peoples minds than under the guise of education. yes the catholic schools do teach math, science etc... but they also push religion pretty hard.... |
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| Zild |
| Yes theology courses are required to graduate. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
dumb comment!
the biggest contribution is probably education. the catholic church educates more people than any other organization, millions of people in the US alone (and not in religious education, but in science, math, etc...). see link below:
LIST OF CATHOLIC UNIVERSITIES
Churches feed homeless people, provide support to the general population in times of emergency (9/11, katrina, etc...), and many also help in third world countries.
CATHOLIC CHARITIES |
I'm into wagering the positives over the negatives of religion. I'd say what they've done for the poor is karmic penance for the attrocities committed hundreds of years ago. How many poor people would you, yourself, have to feed to rid yourself the guilt and shame of burning an [innocent] 18 year old girl at the stake?
+edit-
I'm aware of the negative, ironic sentiments of my signature. :p |
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| {b.s.e.} |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
the biggest contribution is probably education. |
Notice you didn't say spirituality.:clown:
I think people are completely capable of attaining a harmonous society without the constrains and unneccessary judgements and ultimatums of an ex theo-fascist tyranny. |
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| guerra-monstru |
| People turn to religion because they can't handle the number one thing associated with life. Suffering. That is life you don't get what you always want and if you are not going to take care of yourself then no one will do it other than people wanting to influence you. And that is a major problem too. Many of the clergy are just human and are pretty corrupt people due to the amount of money that passes through their church. We can't have a system like religion and not expect to be suppressed scientifically and socially. |
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| Krypton |
| LOL, if there was no religion, nothing would change. There would still be war, hunger, disease, and hardship. Atheists are not different from theists in their brutality so everyone who said the world would be better off without religion just haven't got a clue... |
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