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This week in Iraq (pg. 13)
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
again, you are not reading my writing. i said we need to help them so they are capable to deal with the problems we created. that doesn't mean we need to be paternalist. it merely means we have to provide them assistance so they can cope with what we caused. if that means helping them with security, then that's what we have to do. if that means we need to leave, then we need to leave. however, i highly doubt either you or hardcore trancer is the correct authority to make that decision. |
I am the correct authority actually. The power of my government is in me and the electorate. Not with the president, not with the Congress, but with me and the American people. And it is clear the American people are done with Iraq. Therefore, the government has an obligation to fulfill the will of the people, and withdraw from that wretched country. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I am the correct authority actually. The power of my government is in me and the electorate. Not with the president, not with the Congress, but with me and the American people. And it is clear the American people are done with Iraq. Therefore, the government has an obligation to fulfill the will of the people, and withdraw from that wretched country. |
not really. If every decision were up to you or the american people we would frequently have referendums on every major decision. Instead, we elect people we feel represent us well. to the extent they don't represent us well, we have the power to elect someone who will in the next election cycle. that is the extent of your decision making capabilities. don't get it twisted thinking your will is any more important than electing your next representative. it's utterly ridiculous when people think that elected representatives are bound by the will of the people in the decision making process. your power over government is only your vote, and that is your only guaranteed say in our government.
in any event, the will of the people is not the best barometer for a correct decision. the people usually aren't privileged to all relevant information, and most certainly are unaware of current events and more importantly the consequences of major decisions with respect to current events. this shouldn't be taken that i don't think democracies work because i certainly do. however, the point is that the average person is unprepared to make important decisions and we shouldn't expect them to make the correct decision in this regard; that is the entire reason we have career politicians. for better or worse, these are the people we trust to make the right choices on our behalf because we expect them to spend their entire work-day studying issues we can't because we too have jobs. Nevertheless, they don't have an obligation to do what you want. if they choose a different path your only recourse is to change your vote. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Thursday 30 October: 6 dead
Baghdad: roadside bomb kills 1, Hurriya; 1 body found.
Ninewa
Mosul: gunmen kill 2; car bomb kills 2.
Wednesday 29 October: 18 dead
Baghdad: bombs kill 7.
Diyala
Balad Ruz: gunmen storm house, kill 3 family members of Sahwa member.
Baquba: roadside bomb kills 4-year-old girl.
Abu Saida: roadside bomb kills Sahwa member.
Ninewa
Mosul: bombs kill 2.
Anbar
Ramadi: roadside bomb kills 1.
Babil
Hilla: gunmen kill 3 policemen.
Tuesday 28 October: 42 dead
Baghdad: bombs kill 6; 5 reported killed by US snipers in Sadr City in the past 10 days; 1 body found.
Ninewa
Mosul: gunmen kill 4 police recruits; 3 others killed in separate incidents.
Tal Afar: 20 bodies found in basement of abandoned house.
Anbar
Habbaniya: suicide bomber kills 2 policemen.
Babil
Hilla: 1 body found.
Monday 27 October: 11 dead
Baghdad: bombs kill 6; 1 body found.
Ninewa
Mosul: gunmen kill policeman; suicide bomber kills policeman; 1 body found.
Salahuddin
Dour: roadside bomb kills minibus passenger.
Sunday 26 October: 2 dead
Baghdad: 1 body found.
Ninewa
Mosul: gunmen kill policeman.
Saturday 25 October: 12 dead
Baghdad: bombs kill 3; 2 bodies found.
Ninewa
Mosul: gunmen kill 2 policemen; gunmen kill man in drive-by shooting.
Anbar
Falluja: gunmen kill 2.
Tameem
Kirkuk: 2 bodies found.
Friday 24 October: 9 dead
Baghdad: 2 bodies found.
Wassit
Kut: 4 children killed by landmine; policeman's body found.
Anbar
Amiriya Falluja: roadside bomb kills 1.
Falluja: US forces kill man in his bed during early-morning raid. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
not really. If every decision were up to you or the american people we would frequently have referendums on every major decision. Instead, we elect people we feel represent us well. to the extent they don't represent us well, we have the power to elect someone who will in the next election cycle. that is the extent of your decision making capabilities. don't get it twisted thinking your will is any more important than electing your next representative. it's utterly ridiculous when people think that elected representatives are bound by the will of the people in the decision making process. your power over government is only your vote, and that is your only guaranteed say in our government. |
Not every major decision. Referendums would do a lot to curtail Congressional deadlock. If the parties can't decide, let the people...
| quote: | | in any event, the will of the people is not the best barometer for a correct decision. the people usually aren't privileged to all relevant information, and most certainly are unaware of current events and more importantly the consequences of major decisions with respect to current events. this shouldn't be taken that i don't think democracies work because i certainly do. however, the point is that the average person is unprepared to make important decisions and we shouldn't expect them to make the correct decision in this regard; that is the entire reason we have career politicians. for better or worse, these are the people we trust to make the right choices on our behalf because we expect them to spend their entire work-day studying issues we can't because we too have jobs. Nevertheless, they don't have an obligation to do what you want. if they choose a different path your only recourse is to change your vote. |
Ahh, reminds me of the Crito; Socrates believes public opinion is not important to the decision because the many's ignorance does not allow them to have true choice, and therefore their opinions are of no value.
While somewhat true, remember that only those who care actually vote. The majority of the ignorant masses don't vote, and so they don't have a say. The same would be true for referendums. I rather believe bottom up governance should hold as much sway as top down governance. The previous 7 years has proven what unfettered top down governance could do to a country. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Not every major decision. Referendums would do a lot to curtail Congressional deadlock. If the parties can't decide, let the people...
Ahh, reminds me of the Crito; Socrates believes public opinion is not important to the decision because the many's ignorance does not allow them to have true choice, and therefore their opinions are of no value.
While somewhat true, remember that only those who care actually vote. The majority of the ignorant masses don't vote, and so they don't have a say. The same would be true for referendums. I rather believe bottom up governance should hold as much sway as top down governance. The previous 7 years has proven what unfettered top down governance could do to a country. |
on the way home from the office tonight i saw a great sticker i think you would appreciate. the sticker had the republican elephant at the top and below that it said, "trickle down democracy," with the elephanat pissing on the word democracy. I tried searching for that image on google but i couldn't find it. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
on the way home from the office tonight i saw a great sticker i think you would appreciate. the sticker had the republican elephant at the top and below that it said, "trickle down democracy," with the elephanat pissing on the word democracy. I tried searching for that image on google but i couldn't find it. |
Heh, I like this one...
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Heh, I like this one...
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that's good too, but the one i saw actually made me laugh. |
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| Krypton |
Time for another episode of 'This Week in Iraq'...
| quote: | Monday 10 November: 39 dead
Baghdad: 27 civilians (inc. 5 children) die in bombings; 1 body found.
Diyala
Baquba: young girl blows herself up at Sahwa checkpoint, kills 6 others; gunmen kill 2.
Babel
Hilla: gunmen kill 1.
Dhi Qar
Nassiriya: US vehicle kills child.
Sunday 9 November: 16 dead
Anbar
Amiriyat al-Falluja: suicide bomber kills 3 (1 child) at hospital.
Diyala
Khalis: bomb in market kills 5; gunmen kill 1.
Baquba: bomb in rubbish bin kills sanitation worker.
Ninewa
Mosul: 3 killed in separate attacks.
Wassit
Kut: 1 body found.
Babil
Iskandariya: 2 bodies found.
Saturday 8 November: 16 dead
Baghdad: 3 die in violent attacks; 1 body found.
Anbar
Al-Jazeera: suicide car bomber kills 8.
Ninewa
Mosul: 1 policeman dies in drive-by shooting.
Dahuk
US helicopter kills 2 men in a car.
Babil
Hilla: 1 body found.
Friday 7 November: 7 dead
Baghdad: bombs kill 4.
Diyala
Al=Atheim: roadside bomb kills 2 Sahwa members.
Wassit
Kut: gunmen kill 1.
Thursday 6 November: 14 dead
Baghdad: 8 die in bombings.
Ninewa
Mosul: 1 body found.
Tameem
Sayada: 1 body found.
Hawija: US forces shoot dead man resisting arrest.
Anbar
Falluja: 3 bodies found.
Wednesday 5 November: 15 dead
Baghdad: suicide bomber kills 6.
Ninewa
Mosul: 3 die in bombing and shootings; 1 body found.
Missan
Amara: roadside bomb kills policeman.
Tameem
Riyadh: 2 bodies found.
Anbar
Karmah: roadside bomb kills 2.
Tuesday 4 November: 30 dead
Baghdad: 21 killed in bombings and shootings, including a mother and her 2 young children.
Salahuddin
Tikrit: US forces run down 2 Iraqi men putting up a banner in street.
Ninewa
Mosul: 5 killed in bombings and shootings; 2 bodies found. |
| quote: | Five killed, 30 wounded in Baghdad bomb strike
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A car bomb exploded in central Baghdad on Monday and a suicide bomber blew himself up in the crowd as people rushed to help the wounded, killing at least five people and wounding 30 in the double strike, police said.
The double bombing took place in the Kasra neighbourhood on the east bank of the Tigris River. Police said the death toll could rise.
Violence in Iraq has decreased dramatically over the past year and militants no longer control whole swathes of its towns and villages. But they remain able to carry out daily bomb attacks on civilian and military targets.
http://in.reuters.com/article/world...-36418520081110 |
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| The17sss |
Dude how ed up is this. Now that Obama is about to take office, the Chicago tribune blog noted today that "Iraq Bombings Show Progress" because it notes that it's the worst day of violence since June, showing how the surge has been effective. SPINTASTIC!
| quote: | | Today's bombings in Iraq which left dozens dead is a stark and horrible reminder that, while violence has dropped significantly there as a result of the U.S. military's surge, that country is still very dangerous. It's a measure of progress that today's blasts, which killed at least 31 people in Baghdad and more elsewhere, according to the Associated Press, represented the worst day of violence since June." |
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/p...gs_an_omen.html |
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| Krypton |
| I don't know how this surge has worked. There is a bombing practically every day of the week. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I don't know how this surge has worked. There is a bombing practically every day of the week. |
that's looking at the trees and not the forest though. the progress can't be denied... I know this because the media has been quiet about Iraq for a while now. I mean, you know there are murders in Chicago every day but that doesn't mean the Chicago PD or the mayor have failed in making the city worth living in/visiting. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
that's looking at the trees and not the forest though. the progress can't be denied... I know this because the media has been quiet about Iraq for a while now. I mean, you know there are murders in Chicago every day but that doesn't mean the Chicago PD or the mayor have failed in making the city worth living in/visiting. |
There aren't bombs going off everyday in Chicago. Over 60 people died this week of violence, just violence, not natural causes, violence, in Baghdad alone. I don't see that as progress. The political structure of the country is still very much in question, and I don't believe for one second Iraq could become a liberal democracy, or bastion of freedom, whatever the propaganda machine likes to say. Iraq's constitution itself states that Islam is the supreme law of the land. Please, point to me, one country, which is truly free, in which Islam is the law of the land. Because I haven't found one...;) |
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